Weird dependencies for Virtualbox from testing

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Weird dependencies for Virtualbox from testing

Postby milkyway » 2018-03-13 01:36

Hello,

I've got a mixed Debian setup (stable and few packages from testing).

cat /etc/apt/sources.list :

Code: Select all
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian buster main contrib non-free

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ buster/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ buster/updates main contrib non-free

cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/default-stable :

Code: Select all
Package: *
Pin: release a=stable
Pin-Priority: 700

I wanted to install virtualbox from testing but cancelled because the dependcies were weird :

Code: Select all
root@computer apt-get -t testing install virtualbox                 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done

The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
cpp-6 libgltf-0.0-0v5 liborcus-0.11-0 libperl5.24 libwebpmux2
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.

The following additional packages will be installed:
binutils binutils-common binutils-x86-64-linux-gnu coinor-libcoinmp1v5 coinor-libcoinutils3v5 cpp cpp-7 dkms fakeroot gcc gcc-7 gir1.2-rb-3.0 hplip hplip-data libasan4 libatomic1 libbinutils libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libcamel-1.2-60 libcc1-0 libcilkrts5 libebook-1.2-19 libepubgen-0.1-1 libfakeroot libgcc-7-dev libgcc1 libgmime-3.0-0 libgomp1 libgpgme11 libgpgmepp6 libgsoap-2.8.60 libhpmud0 libhunspell-1.6-0 libitm1 liblsan0 libmpc3 libmpfr6 libmpx2 liborcus-0.13-0 libpython3-stdlib libquadmath0 libqxp-0.0-0 libreoffice libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer libreoffice-base libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-base-drivers libreoffice-calc libreoffice-common libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-evolution libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-gtk3 libreoffice-help-en-us libreoffice-help-zh-tw libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw libreoffice-math libreoffice-report-builder-bin libreoffice-style-galaxy libreoffice-style-tango libreoffice-writer librhythmbox-core10 libsane-hpaio libsnmp30 libstaroffice-0.0-0 libtotem-plparser18 libtsan0 libubsan0 libvncserver1 libxmlsec1 libxmlsec1-nss libzmf-0.0-0 linux-compiler-gcc-7-x86 linux-headers-4.14.0-3-amd64 linux-headers-4.14.0-3-common linux-headers-amd64 linux-kbuild-4.14 linux-libc-dev make manpages manpages-dev printer-driver-hpcups python3 python3-apt python3-brlapi python3-cairo python3-cups python3-dbus python3-distutils python3-gi python3-gi-cairo python3-lib2to3 python3-markupsafe python3-minimal python3-olefile python3-pil python3-pycurl python3-reportlab-accel python3-smbc python3-uno python3.6 python3.6-minimal rhythmbox rhythmbox-data rhythmbox-plugin-cdrecorder rhythmbox-plugins sudo uno-libs3 ure virtualbox-dkms virtualbox-qt

Suggested packages:
binutils-doc cpp-doc gcc-7-locales python3-apport menu gcc-multilib autoconf automake libtool flex bison gdb gcc-doc gcc-7-multilib gcc-7-doc libgcc1-dbg libgomp1-dbg libitm1-dbg libatomic1-dbg libasan4-dbg liblsan0-dbg libtsan0-dbg libubsan0-dbg libcilkrts5-dbg libmpx2-dbg libquadmath0-dbg hplip-doc hplip-gui python3-notify2 system-config-printer glibc-doc gpa libreoffice-grammarcheck myspell-dictionary openclipart2-libreoffice | openclipart-libreoffice pstoedit unixodbc libreoffice-officebean libreoffice-report-builder libjtds-java libreoffice-mysql-connector | libmyodbc | libmysql-java libreoffice-sdbc-postgresql | odbc-postgresql | libpg-java libsqliteodbc | tdsodbc | mdbtools libreofficekit-data hunspell-dictionary-zh-tw | myspell-dictionary-zh-tw hyphen-zh-tw libreoffice-grammarcheck-zh-tw mythes-zh-tw tango-icon-theme fonts-crosextra-caladea fonts-crosextra-carlito make-doc python3-doc python3-tk python3-venv python3-apt-dbg python-apt-doc python-dbus-doc python3-dbus-dbg python-pil-doc python3-pil-dbg libcurl4-gnutls-dev python-pycurl-doc python3-pycurl-dbg python3.6-venv python3.6-doc binfmt-support gnome-codec-install vde2 virtualbox-guest-additions-iso

Recommended packages:
printer-driver-postscript-hp sane-utils fonts-crosextra-caladea fonts-crosextra-carlito fonts-liberation2 fonts-linuxlibertine fonts-noto-hinted fonts-sil-gentium-basic libreoffice-librelogo libreoffice-nlpsolver libreoffice-ogltrans libreoffice-report-builder libreoffice-script-provider-bsh libreoffice-script-provider-js libreoffice-script-provider-python libreoffice-sdbc-postgresql libreoffice-wiki-publisher libreoffice-sdbc-hsqldb libreoffice-sdbc-firebird fonts-liberation2 | ttf-mscorefonts-installer

The following NEW packages will be installed:
binutils-common binutils-x86-64-linux-gnu cpp-7 dkms fakeroot gcc gcc-7 libasan4 libbinutils libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libcamel-1.2-60 libcc1-0 libcilkrts5 libebook-1.2-19 libepubgen-0.1-1 libfakeroot libgcc-7-dev libgmime-3.0-0 libgpgmepp6 libgsoap-2.8.60 libhunspell-1.6-0 libitm1 liblsan0 libmpfr6 libmpx2 liborcus-0.13-0 libqxp-0.0-0 libreoffice-help-zh-tw libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw libreoffice-style-tango libstaroffice-0.0-0 libtsan0 libubsan0 libvncserver1 libxmlsec1 libxmlsec1-nss libzmf-0.0-0 linux-compiler-gcc-7-x86 linux-headers-4.14.0-3-amd64 linux-headers-4.14.0-3-common linux-headers-amd64 linux-kbuild-4.14 linux-libc-dev make manpages-dev python3-distutils python3-lib2to3 python3-olefile python3.6 python3.6-minimal sudo virtualbox virtualbox-dkms virtualbox-qt

The following packages will be upgraded:
binutils coinor-libcoinmp1v5 coinor-libcoinutils3v5 cpp gir1.2-rb-3.0 hplip hplip-data libatomic1 libgcc1 libgomp1 libgpgme11 libhpmud0 libmpc3 libpython3-stdlib libquadmath0 libreoffice libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer libreoffice-base libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-base-drivers libreoffice-calc libreoffice-common libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-evolution libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-gtk3 libreoffice-help-en-us libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common libreoffice-math libreoffice-report-builder-bin libreoffice-style-galaxy libreoffice-writer librhythmbox-core10 libsane-hpaio libsnmp30 libtotem-plparser18 manpages printer-driver-hpcups python3 python3-apt python3-brlapi python3-cairo python3-cups python3-dbus python3-gi python3-gi-cairo python3-markupsafe python3-minimal python3-pil python3-pycurl python3-reportlab-accel python3-smbc python3-uno rhythmbox rhythmbox-data rhythmbox-plugin-cdrecorder rhythmbox-plugins uno-libs3 ure

61 upgraded, 55 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1100 not upgraded.
Need to get 191 MB of archives.
After this operation, 360 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] ^C

What I mean by "weird" is that some of them do make sens (such as fakeroot) ; yet, some others seem to be completely unrelated (such as libreoffice-*, rythmbox).

Note that the libreoffice suite is already installed in its stable version.

Am I doing something wrong? Why does apt try to update libreoffice when I try to install virtualbox from testing?

Thank you for your help.

Best,
Milkyway
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Re: Weird dependencies for Virtualbox from testing

Postby NFT5 » 2018-03-13 04:14

Because it sees the Testing packages as newer (later versions) than what you have and therefore eligible for upgrade.

If your system is stable, which it may not be for much longer, download Virtualbox from the Virtualbox website, and use GDebi to install. Before you do this comment out your testing repos in your Sources list and do an update. Your system will think it has the latest versions and GDebi shouldn't pull in anything from Testing. The later versions of Virtualbox (5+) do have some advantages, such as USB3.0 support, but they can also create some problems with older guests.

Before other members berate me for encouraging you to mix Debian and other repos, I'm not. It is a very dangerous practice and needs not just the knowledge to manage what does and doesn't get updated or upgraded, but also the knowledge on how to recover from the mess you can create - usually with a clean re-installation. Carefully read Don't Break Debian and consider whether you really need those SNS programs. Stable and Backports is almost always a better option.
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Re: Weird dependencies for Virtualbox from testing

Postby milkyway » 2018-03-13 08:57

Hello, thank you for your answer :)

NFT5 wrote:Because it sees the Testing packages as newer (later versions) than what you have and therefore eligible for upgrade.

I suspect that it's not that simple. When I simulate the installation of other packages, gdebi for instance, libreoffice-* package do not show up. Given my configuration (see cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/default-stable in my op), if i got it right, only packages that I explicitly specify or are required get updates from testing. So there seems to be a relation between virtualbox and libreoffice-* somehow.

NFT5 wrote:Before other members berate me for encouraging you to mix Debian and other repos, I'm not. It is a very dangerous practice and needs not just the knowledge to manage what does and doesn't get updated or upgraded, but also the knowledge on how to recover from the mess you can create - usually with a clean re-installation.

I try to avoid getting packages from testing unless necessary and am particularly careful about the dependencies. I have been doing fine since etch !

I am well aware of the "don't Frankendebian" moto.

Yet - and I'm not trying to start a flame war, I do believe that "every single human being that doesn't think as we do suffer from SNS" is a harmful way of thinking : people sometime need the new features offered in testing packages to get their job done ; if they can't get their job done and get shout at by the community when they try to get by because "they are stupid people interested by shiny new things, seeeee", they will simply move along to another distro and Debian (on the desktop) will eventually die.

Software editors/developers are already refraining from publishing their packages into the official repos and discouraging their users from installing from stable and/or, bypass the problem by providing their software as giant (unauthenticated) binaries (it's 1995 all over again, yay!). Without software that people use and care about, Debian will eventually die as well.

I use (and advocate for the use of) Debian because it is libre and as a record of standing for the good political fights (think of the Firefox/Iceweasel mess for instance). That's honestly one of the few things that keep me from using any other distro. "Stable" is not a selling point anymore, pretty much any main distro is rather "stable" with regard to UX these days.

Have a look at this request for feedback to the HN community from Lamby and grep for "testing" or "rolling", several of the top posts/comments are about improving/easing the process for maintaining specific packages up to date.

PS1. I said I didn't wanted to start a flame ware and yet, looking at the text wall I have just written, it might look like that's the only purpose of this post. It's not. I came to get more information/help/guidance about the process involved into the weird behavior that I have encountered and I'm been served with the SNS bullshit. I wanted to let you know that this state of mind is harmful beyond the fair warning that trying to mix sources might result in unstable system.

PS2. @NFT5, I am not bragging at you either, thank you again for your answer ; seeing that you fear to be berated and have to take extra oratory precaution when answering arouses empathy (and underlines once again how harmful this whole SNS mentality is)
Last edited by milkyway on 2018-03-13 09:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weird dependencies for Virtualbox from testing

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2018-03-13 09:39

milkyway wrote:I've got a mixed Debian setup (stable and few packages from testing)

A "mixed system" is testing/sid. Stable/testing is a "broken system" :wink:

That said, you're quite entitled to run a broken system if you want and if it works for you.

On the downside, you're not likely to get much help, as the problems can be quite intractable and no-one (sane) is going to have a similar setup or issues.
Also, there isn't much incentive to help solve a unique, self-inflicted problem that no-one else is going to have, and which is likely to repeated with the next update to testing anyway.

The reason a mixed testing/sid system works is that they're only 10 days apart (notwithstanding blocking issues etc.), but stable/testing gets more and more different with each repo refresh - at some point, shit will break.

milkyway wrote:I have been doing fine since etch !

If that's true you should be well used to tracking down curly dependency chains by now, which is exactly the tedious task your (temporary) possible solution will require.

Really, you should either use stable and backports (either official or your own) or run testing and/or sid (or indeed, a different distro).

edit: also, I don't think your pinning is doing what you think it is ... you don't have 'stable' in your sources ... (but it's been a while since I used pinning so ...).
apt-cache policy could be enlightening.
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Re: Weird dependencies for Virtualbox from testing

Postby stevepusser » 2018-03-13 18:40

Of course, instead of borking your system by mixing testing with stable, one could simply use a backported version: :D

http://mxrepo.com/mx/testrepo/pool/test/v/virtualbox/
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Flightgear 2018.2.2, 4.19.5 kernel, wine-staging 4.0~rc1, Pale Moon 28.2.2, Mesa 18.2.6, Midori 7.0
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Re: Weird dependencies for Virtualbox from testing

Postby NFT5 » 2018-03-13 20:47

milkyway wrote:PS2. @NFT5, I am not bragging at you either, thank you again for your answer ; seeing that you fear to be berated and have to take extra oratory precaution when answering arouses empathy (and underlines once again how harmful this whole SNS mentality is)


No dramas from me. With a join date of 13/3/2018 and one post it would have been difficult for me to know that you've been a Debian user since Etch. That notwithstanding, my advice would have been no different, having been down this track a few times and having borked the system on every occasion. Fortunately for me I still run Stable (Jessie) for production purposes, so no loss of anything important and experience gained each time.

I think it's not so much a case of "how harmful this SNS mentality" is, but rather how harmful is the "anti-SNS mentality". On this forum it can be aggressive but this is a matter of degree which comes from much experience and countless examples of people, especially newbies to Debian, who insist on mixing repos and then suffer butthurt when told they're doing the wrong thing. In my opinion later versions generally don't offer much in terms of usability although there are exceptions, such as Virtualbox. It's very much a Debian thing - other distros don't make their beta and alpha versions as available and users generally wouldn't dream of mixing their stable and beta versions, yet Testing and Unstable make Debian what it is, if used the way they are intended.

I really do believe that you're treading a fine line with the mix you have and this kind of problem (that you're currently experiencing) is perhaps just a small taste of the future, based on how rapidly my experiments with similar went downhill. Anyway, up to you - you're obviously aware of the risks, despite having been fortunate to have escaped them so far.

I'd be interested to know if the Virtualbox solution I suggested works for you. It does for me. Stevepusser's suggestion is just as valid and, IMHO, should work just as well.
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Re: Weird dependencies for Virtualbox from testing

Postby dcihon » 2018-03-14 10:25

Sorry to jump in here.
I am running testing and have for a while now. What works for me is installing Virtualbox from their site.
I install the one for stretch and I don't know how it works but it works.
Here is the version I am running:
Version 5.2.8 r121009 (Qt5.9.2)
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