Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby bw123 » 2018-06-14 12:13

steve_v wrote:[
...
Wheelerof4te wrote:Why don't you install it and try it for yourself? Then tell us how did it go.
Poorly, as of last time I tried (Jessie). Perhaps someone has some advice on how to get it running properly?
Perhaps they might even try to answer the OPs question, rather than just trash talking them and derailing the thread into yet another advertisement for other distros.


This a little disingenous, the OP said he had philosophical reasons for trying to avoid systemd, he said, "I don't want it." Anybody that has done that much research would know you're not going to be able to remove it. It's troll-ish, maybe not trolling, but there are other similar threads, and as I recall at least one was locked by the administrators. We don't need another one.

I do still use sysvinit on a jessie system occasionally, it works fine, but I do not think you can remove systemd completely. I haven't tried it on stretch, because I am not a philosopher, I am a debian user. It would be an interesting experiment, but once again, I don't recommend it for newcomers.

Make a backup before messing around with it. Removing/hacking/adding foreign repos to get rid of systemd may leave your system in an un-upgradeable state?
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby steve_v » 2018-06-14 12:34

bw123 wrote:This a little disingenous, the OP said he had philosophical reasons for trying to avoid systemd, he said, "I don't want it." Anybody that has done that much research would know you're not going to be able to remove it. It's troll-ish, maybe not trolling, but there are other similar threads, and as I recall at least one was locked by the administrators. We don't need another one.
The question might be a blind alley or the homework lacking, but that's not cause for calling someone a troll.
I have no gripe with you though, you've been constructive all along.

As I see it, "It's not possible" is a valid response to a request for advice. So is "There are howtos, but I can't vouch for them". "Go away troll"... not so much.

bw123 wrote:I do still use sysvinit on a jessie system occasionally, it works fine, but I do not think you can remove systemd completely. I haven't tried it on stretch, because I am not a philosopher, I am a debian user. It would be an interesting experiment, but once again, I don't recommend it for newcomers.
Up until recently, I was running sysv on Jessie regularly.
I haven't tried it with stretch, because I'm not a philosopher either. :P
That's not to say it can't be done though.


bw123 wrote:Make a backup before messing around with it.
There are two kinds of computer users... Of course I have backups. :roll:
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby None1975 » 2018-06-14 15:06

steve_v wrote:I haven't tried it with stretch, because I'm not a philosopher either. :P

I recommend you try Devuan ASCII.
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-06-14 19:52

^From my earlier post:
I gave you the thread about the alternatives in the general discussion subforum. If you already saw it, as you've said, then you know everything you need to know

And of course, I linked him your thread:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=137728&p=674906#p674903
His reaction?
I read that. My question is slightly different.

Go figure.
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby bw123 » 2018-06-14 20:28

Wheelerof4te wrote:^From my earlier post:
I gave you the thread about the alternatives in the general discussion subforum. If you already saw it, as you've said, then you know everything you need to know

And of course, I linked him your thread:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=137728&p=674906#p674903
His reaction?
I read that. My question is slightly different.

Go figure.


Advised twice not to do it, and did it anyway. hmmm. yeah that's troll-ish for sure. I don't mind ads for other distros here, even if they get bumped every 5 min. They should go to off-topic though. I'm glad people are still working on forks, and other alternatives. For the normal non-troll debian user, this should not even be an issue, but the thread might be valuable to sum up once again, that systemd is part of debian, it works just fine. It's hard (impossible?) to completely remove. It is NOT an init system only. There are other distros that do not use systemd, they are really fine and awesome, and they want you to try them out, and help with development. They are not formally associated with debian project? The forum here does not offer support for them?
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-06-14 20:40

bw123 wrote:They are not formally associated with debian project? The forum here does not offer support for them?

No, they are separate projects and (usually direct) derivatives of Debian. They get the same treatment as any other derivative. But some of the devs are hanging out here, too.
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby HuangLao » 2018-06-14 21:33

bw123 wrote:
Wheelerof4te wrote:^From my earlier post:
I gave you the thread about the alternatives in the general discussion subforum. If you already saw it, as you've said, then you know everything you need to know

And of course, I linked him your thread:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=137728&p=674906#p674903
His reaction?
I read that. My question is slightly different.

Go figure.


Advised twice not to do it, and did it anyway. hmmm. yeah that's troll-ish for sure. I don't mind ads for other distros here, even if they get bumped every 5 min. They should go to off-topic though. I'm glad people are still working on forks, and other alternatives. For the normal non-troll debian user, this should not even be an issue, but the thread might be valuable to sum up once again, that systemd is part of debian, it works just fine. It's hard (impossible?) to completely remove. It is NOT an init system only. There are other distros that do not use systemd, they are really fine and awesome, and they want you to try them out, and help with development. They are not formally associated with debian project? The forum here does not offer support for them?


DUF also is not officially part of the Debian project, so leeway (within reason) is warranted (although no warranties are provided use as/is). :mrgreen:
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby golinux » 2018-06-14 22:14

HuangLao wrote:DUF also is not officially part of the Debian project, so leeway (within reason) is warranted (although no warranties are provided use as/is). :mrgreen:

If you're talking about this forum it is FDN. DUF is another forum. Long story . . .
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby HuangLao » 2018-06-15 00:48

golinux wrote:
HuangLao wrote:DUF also is not officially part of the Debian project, so leeway (within reason) is warranted (although no warranties are provided use as/is). :mrgreen:

If you're talking about this forum it is FDN. DUF is another forum. Long story . . .


Yup, I remember that clearly...free cynwulf... :) I was a lurker in those days.
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby steve_v » 2018-06-15 04:18

So the gist of this thread so far is:
Don't want to run systemd: Find another distro.
Want to talk about the other inits in the repos anyway: Must be a troll.
Ask any other question regarding non-systemd init: Goto 1.

Openrc and runit are in the main repos and have official wiki pages, yet those wiki pages are so woefully incomplete and outdated that they are effectively useless. Any questions about actually using them here on the forums is met with derision and accusations of trolling.

Just wow. If this is what has become of Debian and the Debian community, I'm out of here.


Wheelerof4te wrote:^From my earlier post:
I gave you the thread about the alternatives in the general discussion subforum. If you already saw it, as you've said, then you know everything you need to know

And of course, I linked him your thread:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=137728&p=674906#p674903
His reaction?
I read that. My question is slightly different.

Go figure.


Asks for advice on running debian without systemd, gets links to list of non-debian distros, repeated ad-nauseam. Go figure.

None1975 wrote:I recommend you try Devuan ASCII.
I have that t-shirt already. Devuan ASCII is not Debian Stretch... Goto 1.
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby debiman » 2018-06-15 07:21

i do largely agree with steve_v, however:

op has a backlog of mildly-trollish contributions.
it is unclear whether that was their intention here or not, but there's no excuse for not reading & refering to the threads that already exist on the topic. op has been told numerous times to do their homework.
Last edited by debiman on 2018-06-15 17:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby sunrat » 2018-06-15 12:37

So this has turned into YAST - Yet Another Systemd Thread. Yawn.
It's not a support thread. Could it please be moved to Offtopic or at least General Discussion? Or preferably /dev/null .
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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby pcalvert » 2018-06-15 14:35

bw123 wrote:I do still use sysvinit on a jessie system occasionally, it works fine, but I do not think you can remove systemd completely.

I believe that is correct. Back in 2016 I created a "systemd-free" Debian Jessie live CD that uses SysVinit.

The systemd packages my Debian live CD contains are:
libpam-systemd
libsystemd0
systemd
systemd-shim

Although it may be possible to build a current Debian system (Jessie or later) without any systemd packages, it is not easy. Practically speaking, though, I think it's safe to say it's "impossible". I recommend using Devuan instead.

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Re: Systemd Alternatives - Newcomer Questions

Postby HuangLao » 2018-06-15 19:23

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p ... stallation
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p ... stallation

you'll notice it required adding a repo, this is why its becoming easier to just use something else, however, it can be done.

YMMV, do full backups first, its generally safe but you could hose your system.....It's actually very safe, but disclaimers and all. :lol:
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