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problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

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bad_gui
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Joined: 2013-01-04 03:19

problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#1 Post by bad_gui »

I have Debian Wheezy on a 3.6 GHz Pentium 4 machine that is about 7 or 8 years old.

When I power up the computer it consistently hangs before GRUB. Just a black screen with a
blinking cursor. A forced power down and restart and then the second startup is fine: no errors.

In the past week though there have been more problems. Iceweasel took a minute or two to
open a window. Strange errors from update manager that there are packages that need to be
fixed. When I clicked fix packages- I got a long list of packages to be removed and updated.
Since that session, update manager never reports a problem with the installation.

I used an Ubuntu Live DVD to run SMART hard drive tests on both (160GB original to computer
and 2TB purchased last year) hard drives and also memtest on the 4x1GB RAM. All reported
no errors.
I cleaned out the dust on the CPU radiator and reinstalled with new thermal compound.

I still have the startup problem but the Iceweasel and Update Manager problems haven't
reappeared. Another strange observation: I tried to install memtest on a boot floppy from
Wheezy and I get an error "no medium in drive." I tried several floppies in it.
However, in the Ubuntu Live environment the floppy drive still works!

My question is whether the problem is software (e.g. corrupted MBR that could be fixed by
a clean reinstall) or some hardware problem with the motherboard?

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#2 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Check all your connectors and cables.

Do you have these problems if you boot up a live system from a DVD?
deadbang

bad_gui
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Re: problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#3 Post by bad_gui »

The one time I used the Ubuntu Live DVD it didn't hang during BIOS POST.

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kiyop
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Re: problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#4 Post by kiyop »

bad_gui wrote:I used an Ubuntu Live DVD to run SMART hard drive tests on both (160GB original to computer
and 2TB purchased last year) hard drives and also memtest on the 4x1GB RAM. All reported
no errors.
I cleaned out the dust on the CPU radiator and reinstalled with new thermal compound.
Is there really no error in HDD nor in RAM?

Is there any culprit in BIOS settings?
bad_gui wrote:In the past week though there have been more problems. Iceweasel took a minute or two to
open a window. Strange errors from update manager that there are packages that need to be
fixed. When I clicked fix packages- I got a long list of packages to be removed and updated.
Since that session, update manager never reports a problem with the installation.
Is there any clue in /var/log/dmesg and dmesg.0 and dmesg.*.gz? Try to find "EE"
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Bulkley
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Re: problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#5 Post by Bulkley »

A couple of problems that will drive you crazy:

A sticking fan. Just jiggling the case to get the cover off can be all it needs to get it started so it looks like it works. A sticking fan will cause over heating so monitor your temperature.

A failing power supply. Circuit boards require precise voltages in the correct places. If just one of them is off a little bit you will have problems. These are likely to show when you boot up. When you have a cold machine a failing power supply might take a couple of tries in order to warm up. Sound familiar?

Loose connections. Re-seat them all, including memory. Pay particular attention to the SATA cable to your hard drive.

All of the above are relatively cheap so don't be afraid to change them. All of these will get worse over time.

I have seen mother boards fail. Get a bright light and study it carefully. This is expensive so don't poke it with anything that will conduct electricity. I sometimes lightly tap a circuit board with a plastic straw or even a wooden pencil just to see if power drops.

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dasein
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Re: problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#6 Post by dasein »

Almost certainly not a problem with the actual motherboard. But that doesn't mean it's not a hardware problem.

Random thoughts, in no particular order...

Your posting is unclear as to whether the computer doesn't POST, or hangs during POST, or completes the POST and then fails to boot. This is a critical difference.

You also don't mention explicitly whether this happens only on a cold start, or if it also happens on a warm restart. Again, crucial information, and no one here is telepathic.

If we take your words at face value, then both the power switch and the power supply are possible culprits (as is cable seating, mentioned by h_o_a_s).

(Aside: the "one problem one thread" rule exists for a reason.)

Ah, I see Bulkley beat me to lots of these points. Ah well, no point in wasting electrons.
Last edited by dasein on 2015-03-28 18:31, edited 1 time in total.

kedaha
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Re: problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#7 Post by kedaha »

Could be the motherboard capacitors. Are any of them swollen? Happened to me recently so I replaced the motherboard.
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bad_gui
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Joined: 2013-01-04 03:19

Re: problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#8 Post by bad_gui »

The problem always occurs with a cold boot and the freeze happens before POST.
A forced restart usually brings up Wheezy although there have been some times
with display problems or spurious errors.

The power supply is original to the computer and based on some online
postings from years ago there were problems back then with this model.

I don't have proof that the power supply is the problem but it is neither difficult nor
expensive to replace. It could damage other components if it fails completely.

I am searching for a replacement 500W ATX power supply. It isn't easy to pick
because all of the mid to upper price range models get both positive and negative
reviews.
Last edited by bad_gui on 2015-03-31 00:40, edited 1 time in total.

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mardybear
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Re: problem with BIOS, grub or hardware?

#9 Post by mardybear »

Me thinks you're on the right pathway. Reading the thread i would guess motherboard or power supply. The fact that your computer is still able to boot, probably not an MBR issue. The fact that it doesn't like booting cold, but boots when the power supply was previously started, suggests power supply.

Others will disagree, but you need not purchase an expensive power supply or spend a lot of time reading reviews. I've used junk/old equipment for many years, some 15 years old with 1000s of boots. Electronics and technology can be finicky and unpredictable. A computer that costs twice as much, doesn't necessarily last twice as long.

Since many households have more than one computer, if you have a second system that utilizes a similar power supply then just open both towers, run the power supply lines from the good computer over and test. If the problem persists, then probably a motherboard issue. Don't even need to dismantle the system to test, takes <5 minutes of effort and no money spent to troubleshoot.
800mhz, 512mb ram, dCore-jessie (Tiny Core with Debian Jessie packages) with BusyBox and Fluxbox.
Most don't have computer access, reuse or pay forward an old computer.

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