Mix of stretch and Jessie

If none of the more specific forums is the right place to ask

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby spoon » 2015-07-13 21:51

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
spoon wrote:I recommend registering an account at linuxquestions.org and asking there, so as not to have to put up with this kind of crap.

As an active member of LQ, I can assure the OP that I would give them exactly this kind of crap on that site as well...
:D

As an active and longer serving member of LQ than you, I would honestly like to see you try it.
spoon
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 2015-07-13 16:10

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-07-13 21:58

spoon wrote:I would honestly like to see you try it.

I have posted advice about the risks of mixing Stable with other repositories quite a few times on LQ.

I have a link to Don'tBreakDebian in my signature on LQ which also contains such advice.

What exactly do you mean by "crap"?

Are you suggesting that mixing Stable with Testing/Unstable is not a really stupid idea unless the user knows exactly what they are doing?
dbruce wrote:Ubuntu forums try to be like a coffee shop in Seattle. Debian forums strive for the charm and ambience of a skinhead bar in Bacau. We intend to keep it that way.
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 8315
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-07-13 22:03

spoon wrote:a tirade of patronising put downs adds nothing.

Almost every post in this thread contains useful advice (apart from golinux).
dbruce wrote:Ubuntu forums try to be like a coffee shop in Seattle. Debian forums strive for the charm and ambience of a skinhead bar in Bacau. We intend to keep it that way.
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 8315
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby Ardouos » 2015-07-13 22:09

Mix your repos if you want, I wouldn't do it or recommend it for that matter. Just enjoy the pieces. ;)
User avatar
Ardouos
 
Posts: 1016
Joined: 2013-11-03 00:30
Location: Elicoor II

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby Randicus » 2015-07-13 22:47

spoon wrote:If it's not a production machine, then why can't a beginner run testing? ... Did you as a beginner run testing or unstable for a while, perhaps too early, or did you start out doing everything text book perfect from the start?
I would advise not only beginners, but also experienced users switching to a new system, to use the stable version of a system, until they are comfortable enough with it to move on to a testing system. Obviously I am conservative and want a working system. There is a wise proverb: One must learn to walk before trying to run.

Why do some people on this forum think that they get to decide what others do with their computers?
Suggesting what should be done and informing people they are doing very unwise things are deciding what others do with their computers?

If testing is not a good option, then why not suggest something else
I believe the person has been advised to re-install with Stable, but apparently that is not a suggestion. It is telling the OP what to do with his/her computer.

or actually see if a downgrade to jessie is possible?
If it is possible, it would require much more knowledge than the OP has. It would be like trying to guide someone who does not know the difference between a crankshaft and camshaft through rebuilding a car engine.
Randicus
 
Posts: 2664
Joined: 2011-05-08 09:11

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby golinux » 2015-07-14 00:37

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Almost every post in this thread contains useful advice (apart from golinux).

:P
May the FORK be with you!
User avatar
golinux
 
Posts: 1402
Joined: 2010-12-09 00:56
Location: not a 'buntard!

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby millpond » 2015-07-14 06:33

spoon wrote:If it's not a production machine, then why can't a beginner run testing? Why do some people on this forum think that they get to decide what others do with their computers?

Did you as a beginner run testing or unstable for a while, perhaps too early, or did you start out doing everything text book perfect from the start?

If testing is not a good option, then why not suggest something else or actually see if a downgrade to jessie is possible? Constructive comments add to the thread, a tirade of patronising put downs adds nothing.


LMDE, which had always been a great system for newbie, has until recently been Debian *testing*.
I'd still be with them if they didnt putz up my sources.list and start getting closer to Ubuntu.
But I found I needed to regroup, and focus my efforts for now on a *stable* release, and purge Mint. Updated to Jessie 8.1

But, oddly, it was an *upgrade* - is there a FAQ on DOWNgrading packages?
It *CAN* be done, but it can get a bit messy with hacking into /var/lib/dpkg
Has anyone conjured any scripts for this kind of thing???

Point being, that anyone installing Debian is likely to come here from another distro, such as Ubuntu where mixing distros is not only acceptable, but also encouraged. In my experience Ubuntu was the most breakable piece of software I ever encountered. I never really managed to break Debian, though I've come across a couple annoyances like SystemD and emacssen.

But, we are all human, and we will sin against the Netgods.
millpond
 
Posts: 582
Joined: 2014-06-25 04:56

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby somebodyelse » 2015-07-14 06:40

spoon wrote:...just remove all of the repositories from your sources.list apart from the stretch repositories. Remove any apt pinning or package holds and dist-upgrade the system to testing. If you hit any problem package or broken dependency chain, just remove that problem package(s) and keep on going.


I like this advice because it's to the point, is likely to work and trusts the OP to make his own choices.

For a stable system though, stick to Debian sources. As for new and shiny unstable systems (laytist packidges!!!!), those are probably most useful for people using Linux in production and who want to learn the future before it arrives. The delta between Debian stable/unstable right now is minimal from a user experience point of view, except that some stuff doesn't work and is untested.
somebodyelse
 
Posts: 231
Joined: 2015-05-24 17:15

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-07-14 06:42

somebodyelse wrote:
spoon wrote:[,...] ust remove all of the repositories from your sources.list apart from the stretch repositories. Remove any apt pinning or package holds and dist-upgrade the system to testing [...]


I like this advice because it's to the point, is likely to work and trusts the OP to make his own choices.

But the advice is crap because the OP's system has sid packages as well -- look at the `apt-cache policy` output.
dbruce wrote:Ubuntu forums try to be like a coffee shop in Seattle. Debian forums strive for the charm and ambience of a skinhead bar in Bacau. We intend to keep it that way.
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 8315
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby somebodyelse » 2015-07-14 06:54

True.
somebodyelse
 
Posts: 231
Joined: 2015-05-24 17:15

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2015-07-14 07:09

The reason these types of threads don't generally get detailed handholding "help" but rather, elicit the types of advice posted upthread, is that there is no generic "fix" - it is likely to involve a lot of effort to extract the relevent info from the OP (with examples and explanations) then laborious step by step "unfucking" of a seriously borked system (again with examples and explanations and painful extraction of basic necessary info), before the OP inevitably gives up and re-installs anyway, failing to learn anything, and providing no incentive for the helper to repeat the exercise with the next numpty that fails to read the basics of running a Debian system and rocks up with a busted Frankensystem and a "my leet machine is fucked why won't anyone fix it for me...".

... and, yes, that is all one sentence... :)
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...
User avatar
dilberts_left_nut
 
Posts: 4911
Joined: 2009-10-05 07:54
Location: enzed

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby Randicus » 2015-07-14 07:59

millpond wrote:Point being, that anyone installing Debian is likely to come here from another distro, such as Ubuntu where mixing distros is not only acceptable, but also encouraged.

The point being, there is nothing preventing them from reading the instructions.

dilberts_left_nut wrote:... and, yes, that is all one sentence... :)
You grammar terrorist! :lol:
Randicus
 
Posts: 2664
Joined: 2011-05-08 09:11

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby cpoakes » 2015-07-14 08:02

Congrats ankscorek! By now you realize you have fucked up, have been given mostly good advice, and caught snark you don't deserve.

Ignore this:

dilberts_left_nut wrote:... before the OP inevitably gives up and re-installs anyway, failing to learn anything...

In some cases, re-installation is preferable to investing the time to repair and debug, also a valuable lesson. I trust you are quite competent to decide whether to repair or reinstall.

Won't be a noobie after this...
User avatar
cpoakes
 
Posts: 97
Joined: 2015-03-29 04:54

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2015-07-14 08:50

Indeed :D

An excellent way to learn the intricacies of the apt packaging system for the suitably motivated punter.
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...
User avatar
dilberts_left_nut
 
Posts: 4911
Joined: 2009-10-05 07:54
Location: enzed

Re: Mix of stretch and Jessie

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2015-07-14 12:31

spoon wrote:There is no need to spend time and effort hand-holding. The situation and the possible solution just needs to be explained, to the point, with links to some documentation.
Which did actually happen, yours being one of the helpful contributions.
No one is suggesting 15 pages of 'try this, did that work for you?'.
Well, we haven't heard back from the OP yet.
The problem with your reasoning is simple, it is prejudice based on previous experience and guesswork. You believe you have the person with the broken system all worked out and can guess the outcome (well done if you do) but in 1 case out of every 10 you might have a user who might take the lesson on board and stick around and become the next clued up user to keep the forum populated with such users for years to come. The current approach is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
In this case, no I don't (well not yet anyway), but my comments were more of a general observation rather than a commentary on this particular thread.
It's probably also worth noting that in the intervening time since the fabled "good old days"™ (where did your other posts go?) there has also been a noticeable change in demographic of the typical "customer" and IMO your 1 in 10 is unfortunately rather optimistic.
Otherwise, I generally agree with your sentiment, and the principle of helping people to help themselves is indeed the way users forums should work.
If the user came here with bad manners and demanding answers, that would be a problem.

Again, not the case here, but also fairly common.
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...
User avatar
dilberts_left_nut
 
Posts: 4911
Joined: 2009-10-05 07:54
Location: enzed

PreviousNext

Return to General Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

fashionable