Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core?

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Re: Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core

Postby lbuiyzxl » 2017-05-13 13:35

dasein wrote:Terminal output in post = terminal emulator installed.

@dasein
https://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap
I using terminal emulator on jessie chroot to other debian system that non-existent any x-terminal-emulator,this explain is OK?
Last edited by lbuiyzxl on 2017-05-13 21:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core

Postby debiman » 2017-05-13 13:37

@dasein: in all fairness, it IS possible that op installed lxde straight from the tty, non-X, but sure they would have explained that because it does seem like a relevant detail.

nevertheless, from the info gathered so far, it is very, very clear that some terminal emulator (most likely xterm) must have been already installed.
and output that would have confirmed that has been requested, but never provided.

and in any case, it's a non-issue, nothing is broken, op just wants to know WHY... WFW...
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Re: Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2017-05-13 22:30

Duplicate threads merged.
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...
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Re: Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core

Postby orythem27 » 2017-05-15 11:28

debiman wrote:nevertheless, from the info gathered so far, it is very, very clear that some terminal emulator (most likely xterm) must have been already installed.

From what I understand, OP is suggesting that 'termit' is installed by the 'lxde-core' metapackage, not before. That is to say, before 'lxde-core' is installed, there is no terminal emulator package in the system. In fact, OP performed the installation of 'lxde-core' right after a fresh debootstrap minimal installation, without any GUI-related stuff.

So, a really confusing situation. Hopefully OP would provide us with more specific details. e.g. Is this problem fully reproducible?
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Re: Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core

Postby lbuiyzxl » 2017-05-15 11:39

orythem27 wrote:e.g. Is this problem fully reproducible?

At least this problem fully reproducible for me
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... -installed
Code: Select all
root@debian:~/debian_stretch# debootstrap stretch ./ http://ftp.cn.debian.org/debian/ >/dev/null
root@debian:~/debian_stretch# mount --bind /sys ./sys
root@debian:~/debian_stretch# mount --bind /proc ./proc
root@debian:~/debian_stretch# chroot ./
root@debian:/# apt update >/dev/null 2>&1
root@debian:/# echo Y |apt upgrade >/dev/null 2>&1
root@debian:/# echo n |apt install lxde-core 2>&1| grep -o termit
termit
termit
root@debian:/# echo n |apt install lxde-core 2>&1| grep -o lxterminal
root@debian:/# echo n |apt-get install lxde-core 2>&1| grep -o termit
termit
termit
root@debian:/# echo n |apt-get install lxde-core 2>&1| grep -o lxterminal
root@debian:/# apt-cache policy termit
termit:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 3.0-1+b1
  Version table:
     3.0-1+b1 500
        500 http://ftp.cn.debian.org/debian stretch/main i386 Packages
root@debian:/# apt-cache policy lxterminal
lxterminal:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 0.3.0-2
  Version table:
     0.3.0-2 500
        500 http://ftp.cn.debian.org/debian stretch/main i386 Packages
root@debian:/#

@orythem27
Thank you help me clarify :D
Last edited by lbuiyzxl on 2017-05-15 14:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core

Postby orythem27 » 2017-05-15 14:31

dasein wrote:Terminal output in post = terminal emulator installed.

@dasein You are suggesting OP has termit installed before installing lxde-core, whereas I believe OP means "termit" is installed by lxde-core to satisfy a dependency of either lxterminal or x-terminal-emulator.

So, the actual question is, why does the package manager choose "termit" instead of "lxterminal", which is obviously the expected choice?
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Re: Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core

Postby debiman » 2017-05-17 05:20

lbuiyzxl wrote:
orythem27 wrote:e.g. Is this problem fully reproducible?

At least this problem fully reproducible for me
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... -installed

afaics the answers there are pretty much the answers here.
also fully reproducible means can you create (from scratch) another situation where the same thing happens, and show to others so that they can create it themselves, and come to the same result.

i strongly suspect op will keep on harping on this until it peters out, all the time (intentionally?) missing one relevant detail that was probably pointed out to him in the first reply. dunno.

aside:
are orythem27 and lbuiyzxl the same person? look at the join dates, and how one answeres the other almost immediately up there?
maybe i'm paranoid, but sometimes i wish i was an admin so i could look at the ip addresses...
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Re: virtual-package-depends-without-real-package-depends?

Postby lbuiyzxl » 2017-05-17 11:38

debiman wrote:are orythem27 and lbuiyzxl the same person?

So can explain ?
lbuiyzxl wrote:deleted

I'm not understand why she using orythem27 to login with help me explain this problem

debiman wrote:afaics the answers there are pretty much the answers here.


OMG(Should I use this word?I'm sorry for any offend), Really you still can't understand my said what something ?

I already posted a so step by step code.
This problem is lxterminal should will installed ,because the lxde-core first recommend lxterminal.

As relate package:
I can't understand recommend of lxpanel ,because it only recommend a virtual package no any relate real packge
https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-polic ... #s-virtual
seems this lxpanel problem is simular https://lintian.debian.org/tags/virtual ... pends.html
I guess this problem is made in recommend of lxpanel

@debiman
Last edited by lbuiyzxl on 2017-05-19 10:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why isn't lxterminal installed when installing lxde-core

Postby orythem27 » 2017-05-17 14:11

debiman wrote:aside:
are orythem27 and lbuiyzxl the same person? look at the join dates, and how one answeres the other almost immediately up there?
maybe i'm paranoid, but sometimes i wish i was an admin so i could look at the ip addresses...

@debiman

No, we are not the same person. In fact @lbuiyzxl is my fellow countrymen and we have been fairly acquainted in our local LUG. I believe he indeed raised an interesting case, but sadly the discussion has been severely off course probably due to his lack of English skills and violation of several forum rules which created a lot of misunderstanding.

His case is fully reproducible. That is, if you install lxde-core on a base stretch system, you'll get termit instead of lxterminal which is confusing since lxterminal is the first in the OR group, it should have priority to be selected.

My wish is, although misunderstanding has unfortunately dominated this thread, the discussion could be brought back on the correct course.

==================
P.S. Explanation for this fresh account:
At first, @lbuiyzxl had been unable to register on this forum due to censorship in his local area. So he turned to me for help. I registered this account for him. But shortly after that, somehow he managed to register by himself so that this account is no longer useful to him. Later when I saw the situation and was about to post to help him clarify, I coincidentally forgot the password of my old account @vickycq, so I opt to use this new account to post instead. This is the full story.
Last edited by orythem27 on 2017-05-17 16:59, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: virtual-package-depends-without-real-package-depends?

Postby orythem27 » 2017-05-17 14:22

OK. I'll help him provide a reproducible case instead.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Perform a minimal debootstrap installation of stretch;
Code: Select all
# debootstrap stretch ./ http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/


2. chroot in and install lxde-core.
Code: Select all
# apt update
# apt install lxde-core


Actual result: `termit` is selected for installation.

Expected result: `lxterminal` should be selected because `lxterminal` comes first in its OR group;

The lintian page in the above post also suggests that if a real package comes before a virtual package in its Depends(Recommends?), it should be the first alternative.

This case can be reliably reproduced with stretch, while with jessie I'm able to get the expected result, where `lxterminal` got installed correctly.
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Re: virtual-package-depends-without-real-package-depends?

Postby dasein » 2017-05-17 17:19

orythem27 wrote:OK. I'll help him provide a reproducible case instead.

Please confirm that you actually reproduced the problem, and didn't just take his word for it.

orythem27 wrote:This case can be reliably reproduced with stretch, while with jessie I'm able to get the expected result, where `lxterminal` got installed correctly.

Let me see if I'm understanding correctly here.

- Under the most charitable of scenarios, your friend found a bug in Debian's Testing branch

- Your friend didn't bother to look for an existing bug report against Testing, because if he had, he would have mentioned that important detail in at least one of his numerous thread(s) in multiple forums.

- Instead of doing something constructive like file a bug report, he spammed at least four (and counting!) different venues with an average of at least 2 new threads every day asking the ultimately irrelevant philosophical question of "why?" And he persists in this behavior, even after being told that it's considered rude; the correlation (if any) between the probability of an answer and the frequency of the question is mildly negative.

I speak with all humility, because your friend's English is vastly better than my Chinese. But perhaps you could explain to him in Chinese that his English is even worse than he thinks it is, and is only somewhat comprehensible. Convey to him that he's not in a position even to hint at the idea that any lack of comprehension is the fault of his listener(s), much less take an "OMG" attitude about it.

Perhaps also explain to him how impatient, even exasperated, people are becoming with him. The longer he pursues this philosophical quest, the less likely he is ever to get help on any other subject.
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Re: virtual-package-depends-without-real-package-depends?

Postby orythem27 » 2017-05-17 17:40

dasein wrote:Your friend didn't bother to look for an existing bug report........much less take an "OMG" attitude about it.

Thanks for taking time to look into this thread and providing valuable insights. I hope that with the appropriate "paraphrasing" the actual issue is now much clearer.

dasein wrote:Please confirm that you actually reproduced the problem, and didn't just take his word for it.

Yes, I am actually able to reproduce OP's problem.

In fact I believe OP has pretty much solved the problem by himself according to the edits in the main post. This is probably the story:

  • Stretch's lxpanel package solely lists x-terminal-emulator as its recommends, which violated the lintian rule as described in this thread's current title;

  • And because lxpanel is listed as a dependency in lxde-core, by the time lxde-core's recommends is examined, `termit` has already been ENQUEUED for installation.(1) (I guess that dependency is searched before recommends?)

  • Thus, the virtual package is considered to be "satisfied" and there is no need to select `lxterminal` any more.

Consider that Jessie's lxpanel package does not list any terminal emulator as its recommends, the above thoery actually made sense to me.

However, there is still more to be investigated. I tried editing out `lxpanel` as a dependency in stretch's lxde-core and rebuilt the package, it still wants to install `termit`. Guess there might be more "hidden" dependency chain that enlists `termit` early in the resolving process.

So if the above theory is actually the case, would that lintian violation in `lxpanel` qualify for bug report?


--------------------------------
NOTE(1):
I tried building an empty package solely recommending x-terminal-emulator with equivs-build. The result is `termit` being selected. The selection, according to that lintian page, should be unpredictable.
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Re: virtual-package-depends-without-real-package-depends?

Postby dasein » 2017-05-17 17:44

orythem27 wrote:I hope that with the appropriate "paraphrasing" the actual issue is now much clearer.

Speaking only for myself of course, I am long past caring about your friend's issue. He's already on my "ignore list".

orythem27 wrote:In fact I believe OP has pretty much solved the problem by himself according to the edits in the main post.

Then for the love of whatever he holds Sacred, tell him to mark all of his multiple threads as [SOLVED]. Edits to the initial post are merely another form of obfuscation.

(Fact is, I still vote OP=troll. Or whiny 13-year old.)
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Re: virtual-package-depends-without-real-package-depends?

Postby orythem27 » 2017-05-17 17:51

dasein wrote:Speaking only for myself of course, I am long past caring about your friend's issue. He's already on my "ignore list".
......
(Fact is, I still vote OP=troll. Or whiny 13-year old.)


Okey doke. It's a pity to see you are no longer interested in the tecnical aspect of this thread. Goodbye.
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Re: virtual-package-depends-without-real-package-depends?

Postby arochester » 2017-05-17 18:04

what does the {a} signify?


This is a feature of aptitude. Look at https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apti ... 01.en.html Scroll down to: -W, --show-why

Dependencies are installed {a} for automatically?
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