The Lighter browser....or a text one??

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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby debiman » 2017-11-19 08:52

^ this.

netsurf and dillo are great projects!

but they never render styled web pages the way they're supposed to look (from the designer's point of view).
in many cases this also distorts the content of the pages, or even makes it invisible/unreadable.

it is sad. i wish the internet would get simpler, not more complex.
because in the end, it's not the browser that is bloated, it's the www itself, and any browser that wants to keep up with that ultimately cannot be very lightweight.
even palemoon is medium-weight at best.
and those so-called minimal browsers like e.g. qutebrowser, are really minimalistic frontends to a full-featured browser engine (webkit in this case).
the engine itself is not minimalistic or lightweight.
cannot be, because of the www of 2017.
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby Bloom » 2017-11-19 11:25

Two others you could try: Xombrero and Midori. They are both in Debian's default repositories. In my opinion, Midori works the best.
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby IzayoiFlandre » 2017-11-19 17:37

I don't think there's really going to be a lightweight browser that will work with the majority of popular content on the Web. Simple fact is, a lot of these websites are bloated to death with JS, advertising, AJAX and other things that just generally cause things to be awful for low-end machines. If you're not really a fan of the mainstream social media, then it would be fine, but for your average, everyday user, lightweight browsers don't really work that well, sadly. :(

@Bloom: Midori has been discontinued since 2015 and nothing has been posted on their blog since around March last year or so.
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby debiman » 2017-11-19 18:40

Bloom wrote:Two others you could try: Xombrero and Midori. They are both in Debian's default repositories. In my opinion, Midori works the best.

those are both examples of the minimal frontend to a not-so-minimal backend (iirc incarnations of webkit in both cases). (and i think both are currently unmaintained?)

that's where netsurf and dillo are so different - they use a different, much lighter web rendering engine.
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby Bulkley » 2017-11-19 21:51

debiman wrote:i wish the internet would get simpler, not more complex.
because in the end, it's not the browser that is bloated, it's the www itself, and any browser that wants to keep up with that ultimately cannot be very lightweight.


Agreed. When I think of how fast I could surf around the world using Gopher over a dial up modem . . . :roll:
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby IzayoiFlandre » 2017-11-20 06:49

Netsurf in the repositories is still at 3.6, the latest version is 3.7 which was released about a month ago or so. Might be worth getting that updated in Stable. Still a very nice browser though, very snappy and fast.
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby Lysander » 2017-11-20 09:51

IzayoiFlandre wrote:Might be worth getting that updated in Stable.


You're missing a crucial point behind the stable release. The stable release is called so because the versions of packages included in the repos are known to work with the operating system. If the version in the repos is 3.6, it is likely to stay at 3.6 in Debian 9. This goes for the large majority of packages: they have been well-tested and are known to be stable and secure. This is what makes Debian stable branch one of the most trusted and secure OSs in existence. There are minor updates, but these normally only come in the form of bug fixes.

You may find yourself thinking that you 'need' more up-to-date software, but this is not always the case, especially if you are using your machine for productivity. Often new versions of software are not essential and the desire for new software as-and-when released is often rather cynically referred to in the community as 'Shiny New Stuff Syndrome'. You will most likely find that the stable branch is more than adequate for your needs on a work machine.

Take a look at the first link in my signature for more information.

If you find you absolutely do need newer software, this is where Debian Backports come in. Steve Pusser is the man who works on that here.
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby IzayoiFlandre » 2017-11-20 10:51

In the case of some programs I definitely agree, but web browsers and anything like that pretty much need to be kept up-to-date because of the constant evolution of web standards and coding practices. (Web browsers: usually they work fine for about 6-12 months with most sites before they start to stop working with the web more easily. Plus security is probably a big risk if left out of date with them.)

Though NetSurf version I have handles simple websites fine and I think it was designed for simple sites, not complex bloated stuff. I think it's quite a promising project :)
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby Lysander » 2017-11-20 11:47

IzayoiFlandre wrote:In the case of some programs I definitely agree, but web browsers and anything like that pretty much need to be kept up-to-date because of the constant evolution of web standards and coding practices. (Web browsers: usually they work fine for about 6-12 months with most sites before they start to stop working with the web more easily. Plus security is probably a big risk if left out of date with them.)


This is why the default browser for Debians stable is Firefox ESR [ESR means Extended Support Release]:

What does the Mozilla Firefox ESR life cycle look like?

Releases will be maintained for approximately one year, with point releases containing security updates coinciding with regular Firefox releases. The ESR will also have a two cycle (12 week) overlap between the time of a new release and the end-of-life of the previous release to permit testing and certification prior to deploying a new version.


https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/o ... tions/faq/

You will also find Chromium in the repos.

I have also tried Opera and Vivaldi [you have to download both from their websites], both work with no issues.

The only irk with Opera is it updates itself so often in x64 [desktop], so I have actually commented its repo out in sources.list.d on my desktop and I update it when I choose to.

If you are using your netbook, I would recommend Chromium or Vivaldi for a more heavyweight browser [if not using Firefox]. I would not recommend Opera since it is no longer maintained for 32-bit systems. Out of Chromium and Vivaldi I would recommend the latter, since it is a lot more customisable than Chromium. However, Vivaldi is not in the repos so you are taking a risk [albeit a slight one] by using it.

However, overall though your best bet for a more heavyweight browser is Firebox ESR: it is secure and it is great with streaming videos. Also it makes watching videos on Amazon a breeze, whereas with all other browsers you will have to jump through hoops.
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby Thorny » 2017-11-20 12:49

IzayoiFlandre wrote: Plus security is probably a big risk if left out of date with them.)

Firefox-ESR is kept up to date with security patches, and they appear very quickly.

However, this might be something that would have interest for you.
https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby Bulkley » 2017-11-20 15:40

IzayoiFlandre wrote:Web browsers: usually they work fine for about 6-12 months with most sites before they start to stop working with the web more easily.


That is often a result of a user adding extensions, bookmarks, tweaking, etc. Next time that happens go into your hidden files and rename the browser in question. For example, in ~.mozilla rename firefox to firefox.Izayo. Then restart firefox. That will take you back to an original, like a fresh install. By renaming you can reverse the process. Rename files with your name as a suffix so that you can easily identify them.
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Re: The Lighter browser....or a text one??

Postby IzayoiFlandre » 2017-11-20 17:59

Oh cool, thanks for the tip. Also Firefox ESR is an exception to my "security" thing.
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