[Solved] Right way to install sid?

If none of the more specific forums is the right place to ask

[Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby supusr » 2017-11-29 22:57

I have used GNU/Linux exclusively for about 5 years, mostly Debian and Debian-based distros. I know stable is the recommended distro, but I would like to use sid after previously using only stable or testing. I so far have not been able to successfully install it. My method has been to first install stable from the Xcfe CD (twice) or from a netinst CD (once - takes a long time on my slow internet connection), then change all instances of stable in the sources list to sid, and finally update all. This has failed three times. My sources in stable have been:
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch main
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main
deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main
Is the problem that I don't need all these lines, or must I first go to testing, then to sid, perhaps? Should I add applications I plan to use (libreoffice, etc.) before changing the sources list? I want to experiment with sid because I want to see how unstable it really is (friends are telling me it is pretty stable overall), I want to use firefox 57, and I believe sid may actually get faster security updates than testing. Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Last edited by supusr on 2017-11-29 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Right way to install sid?

Postby bw123 » 2017-11-29 23:04

I want to see how unstable it really is (friends are telling me it is pretty stable overall)


Ask them how they installed it?

-or- check the wiki
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable
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Re: Right way to install sid?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-11-29 23:16

Really though, if you need to ask this, SID might not be a very good choice,
Q. How do I install "unstable" ("sid")?

How to install Debian SID
"What we expect you have already Done"

Before doing anything, read the Debian documentation:
Debian Documentation
How to ask the smart way
Debian Foro Español
======================
For the Birds
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby supusr » 2017-11-29 23:36

Yeah. OK. Found the answer in the Debian Sid support pages. Must first go to testing, then to sid.
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Re: Right way to install sid?

Postby Bulkley » 2017-11-30 00:13

GarryRicketson wrote:Really though, if you need to ask this, SID might not be a very good choice . . .


+1
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby HuangLao » 2017-11-30 00:14

like Garry said if you have to ask....then its probably not for you. Keep in mind also the forum typically does not provide help for Sid, similar to Slackware with current, LQ forum does not help with current, its expected that you know what you are doing when you take that leap...
Image
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby HuangLao » 2017-11-30 00:15

afterthought...I found this site that allows you to edit gifs online before posting...the above image was HUGE when I previewed the post....
https://ezgif.com/resize
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-11-30 01:31

I use them my self a lot,

If one is going to use SID , it is important to join the appropriate mailing lists, and keep checking the bug reports, etc, before installing packages . If and when things start going wrong, it usually gets reported fairly promptly, obviously if there are problems with dependencies and a specific package, one
would want to wait until it is fixed , before installing it. Unless you are also involved in the development, and want to install a broken package so you can try to fix the problem,... any way, have fun and enjoy it. I had SID on a VM for a while, I certainly would not want to use it for a production server or even as my regular system, that I depend on.
This was the method I used to install it :
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallFAQ
Use netboot "mini.iso" image. You will find it on any of the Debian mirrors under debian/dists/unstable/main/installer-*/current/images/netboot/mini.iso. During the installation choose "Advanced options" -> "Expert install". In the step "Choose a mirror of the Debian archive" choose version "sid - unstable".
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2017-12-08 19:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-11-30 05:53

I use the grml live ISO image and grml-debootstrap(8) to lay down a sid system directly with no need to play the `dist-upgrade` game.
"Only the mediocre are always at their best." — Jean Giraudoux
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Re: Right way to install sid?

Postby michapma » 2017-12-08 11:45

GarryRicketson wrote:Really though, if you need to ask this, SID might not be a very good choice


I appreciate this kind of advice, but would like to offer a counter perspective. The OP has been using Debian for five years before trying out Sid, and has already made experience with testing. I did something similar, and as long as the OP is only playing around with Sid and not trying to replace stable with it—which seems to be the case—I say go for it. Playing with unstable has taught me a lot, you just have to go into it expecting the worst and willing to burn it, though I've never botched unstable so bad that a reinstall was necessary. I started with a stable and testing dual-boot, but in recent years it's been both stable and unstable.

GNU/Linux is about choice. Have fun playing, breaking and fixing. :wink:
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-12-08 12:23

I want to experiment with sid because I want to see how unstable it really

Then:
I appreciate this kind of advice, but would like to offer a counter perspective. The OP has been using Debian for five years before trying out Sid, and has already made experience with testing. I did something similar, and as long as the OP is only playing around with Sid----snip--

Good point , you are right, to be honest I had completely missed where the OP
said "experiment", ...so apology is in order, Sorry.
With that said, what little I have done with Debian , SID (still in development)
was done on a VM, a great way to experiment. Even better is when you have a extra PC you can use,... oops, I see I all ready said that.

@ by HuangLao » Some thing else about https://ezgif.com/resize, if you want the image to be permanent, you need to download the resized image, and store it some where else, that way the link to it keeps working. (assumeing where you store it is reliable)
Please do not directly link this file, but save it when finished.
The image will soon be deleted from our servers.
You can host images at sites like imgur.com

Also, the same can be done with ImageMagick off line, but that is another topic.
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2017-12-09 00:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby None1975 » 2017-12-08 17:44

Hello. You can try Siduction. Siduction is an operating system based on the Linux kernel and the GNU project, with applications/programs from Debian unstable/sid and we hold fast to the core values and social contract and the DFSG of Debian.
OS: Debian 9.2 / WM: Stumpwm
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian, Stumpwm
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby sunrat » 2017-12-08 22:41

supusr wrote:I want to experiment with sid because I want to see how unstable it really is (friends are telling me it is pretty stable overall), I want to use firefox 57, and I believe sid may actually get faster security updates than testing.

"Unstable" in this sense means packages change regularly and rapidly, nothing to do with how reliable it is. Often there will be hundreds of packages upgraded each week/month. It doesn't get security updates like Stable, ie. there is no security team. Updates come mainly from upstream but yes, they are in unstable before testing.
I also will add to the recommendation of siduction. I have been using it and its predecessors for about 9 years now with only a handful of issues and one occasion where total nuke and reinstall was needed. siduction forum's Upgrade Warnings are essential to read before upgrades (also good if you use vanilla sid) and sometimes you just need to wait until it's safe.
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Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby oswaldkelso » 2017-12-08 23:53

If you have a shitty internet connection there is no logic in running anything that has constant updates. I found running sid on PPC had some benefits for an obscure platform. But the constant updates were a pita.
As a non techie person It was generally reliable and for consistency I ran it on my other PC's but it was frigging nightmare when it did finally break.
For three months I tried to fix it before I gave up. I wiped the disk and only months later discovered someone else with the same obscure systemd bug... Oh well at least I got to enjoy my new love that is runit :mrgreen:
Ash init durbatulûk, ash init gimbatul,
Ash init thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
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Re: [Solved] Right way to install sid?

Postby wizard10000 » 2017-12-09 13:43

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I use the grml live ISO image and grml-debootstrap(8) to lay down a sid system directly with no need to play the `dist-upgrade` game.


You can also install Sid directly from a Debian mini-iso. Easiest Debian install there is but strongly recommend installing over a wired connection if you go this route. It was great not to worry about wireless until after install and then I just installed wireless firmware, network manager and plasma-desktop and away I went :)

edit: The mailing lists mentioned are optional but highly recommended (I just read the subject lines unless there's content I need to read) and having reportbug, apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges installed are pretty much mandatory.

Last, *do not* use apt's dist-upgrade or full-upgrade with Testing or Sid unless you know exactly what you're doing. Plain old apt upgrade will hold back packages that aren't ready for release.
Last edited by wizard10000 on 2017-12-09 16:15, edited 1 time in total.
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