Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

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Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby rhino777 » 2018-05-05 00:18

Preliminary Information

    1. My level is intermediate with Linux.
    2. Kernel version is 4.0.9-amd64.
    3. Laptop normally runs like a dream.
    4. I've monitored in htop/top, and the problems seems to be tied to my browser(s) in particular.
    5. If you list a solution that I have already tried, such as purging an application along with manual deletion of various folders, I'll tell you.
A good example of the problem is that it took 20 minutes to sign up for an account here, including a hard reboot when the system became almost completely unresponsive. While I estimate my level of proficiency as intermediate, I'm not experienced enough to deal with the nuts and bolts of this system, so I'm asking for your help to troubleshoot and resolve whatever is wrong.

Normally, the system runs exceptionally well, but over the last three or four days I've experienced a lot of trouble with speed and non-responsiveness.

I experience the same problems while surfing the Internet with Chrome-stable, Chromium, and Firefox. I am also experiencing the same problem using excel files in LibreOffice, as well as email functions in Evolution and Thunderbird.

It starts with slow loading and choppiness while scrolling (for the browsers). Progresses to temporary freezes while loading pages (for the browsers) that can last from 30 seconds to one minute. With excel files and email, the same problem exists while trying to save a file or check for email. In the excel files, I've noticed that clicking on a cell takes about 3 seconds to highlight the cell and enter it.

I'm wondering if there is a memory management problem due to my current configuration, but as I said, my level is not advanced enough to properly troubleshoot this situation. (Perhaps this could turn into a sticky for other users one day.)

Thanks in advance to those of you that help.

Additional Information
I'm also wondering if browser activity is affecting the whole system. I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I have two JREs' installed:
    1. Free Software Foundation 1.5.0
    2.Oracle Corporation 1.8.0_171

Thanks
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby bw123 » 2018-05-05 12:15

If you list a solution that I have already tried, such as purging an application along with manual deletion of various folders, I'll tell you.


That's really not the way people usually do it. Why don't you tell people what you purged and reinstalled, and what folders you deleted?

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking chrome-stable? what is that? Three or four days ago... hmmm, maybe something was upgraded and there is a bug.

On the other hand, the 20 min sign on, system unresponsive, reboot, etc. That sounds like possible hardware failure, like a drive sticking...

There are logs, dmesg, and systemd journal that can maybe help narrow down what is going on. You are the only one with access to them.

Are you running a mixed system with third party sources? apt policy might be helpful?

Code: Select all
$ apt policy
Package files:
 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     release a=now
 500 http://security.debian.org stretch/updates/main amd64 Packages
     release v=9,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=main,b=amd64
     origin security.debian.org
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates/main amd64 Packages
     release o=Debian,a=stable-updates,n=stretch-updates,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 Packages
     release v=9.4,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
Pinned packages:



2. Kernel version is 4.0.9-amd64.


hmm, just noticed this, are you sure that's not 4.9.0 instead? select and paste in code boxes is always good when relaying info from the os.
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby rhino777 » 2018-05-05 16:46

Yes. My apologies.

Linux 4.9.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u1 (2017-12-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux


I can't remember everything I've purged and deleted...

It's google-chrome-stable 66.0.3359.139-1

Well, this laptop is about 2 months old, and it runs very well. Usually I have trouble when surfing. Some pages take a long time to load. Then I started getting into the choppiness and lack of responsiveness throughout the whole system.

Today I removed Oracle jre and openjdk-8-jre and then reinstalled openjdk-8-jre. (Part of a system cleanup.) After that, while trying to use the website TransferWise, I started running into the same trouble.

I keep remembering and then forgetting to look at dmesg. I'll do that tomorrow and try some more troubleshooting. Until then,

Thanks.
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Location: Bulgaria

Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-05-05 18:00

rhino777 wrote:Linux 4.9.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u1 (2017-12-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux

That is an old version of kernel, have you run any updates lately?
Code: Select all
apt update && apt upgrade

When did you install Debian?
Show us your sources.list, too.
Open Disks (assuming this is GNOME) and check the drive's health, SMART status.
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby rhino777 » 2018-05-06 12:55

I installed it the day I bought the computer. About 2 months ago.

Dmesg shows nothing unusual.

Here's apt policy
Code: Select all
Package files:
 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     release a=now
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security stable/updates/non-free amd64 Packages
     release v=9,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=non-free,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security stable/updates/contrib amd64 Packages
     release v=9,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=contrib,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security stable/updates/main amd64 Packages
     release v=9,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=main,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian stable-updates/main amd64 Packages
     release o=Debian,a=stable-updates,n=stretch-updates,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian stable/non-free amd64 Packages
     release v=9.4,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=non-free,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian stable/contrib amd64 Packages
     release v=9.4,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=contrib,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian stable/main amd64 Packages
     release v=9.4,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
     origin deb.debian.org
Pinned packages:


I can't attach a screenshot of SMART results. It reports Disk is OK.

Sources.list:
Code: Select all
# MAIN
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stable main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stable main contrib non-free

# UPDATES
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stable-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stable-updates main contrib non-free

# SECURITY
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ stable/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ stable/updates main contrib non-free


That is an old version of kernel, have you run any updates lately?


Yes. I run them almost daily. I'll check. "apt search linux-header" shows 4.9.0.3 to 4.9.0.6 available.

"uname -a" reports:

Code: Select all
Linux d7 4.9.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u1 (2017-12-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux


If that kernel is old, I'm not sure why it's the latest listed according to my sources.list. And I'm not sure what SMP means...
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-05-06 13:20

List looks ok, but you may not need deb-src lists if you don't plan on fixing bugs yourself or tweaking the code. Also, you might want to replace "stable" with "stretch". Reason is when the next Stable versions comes out, it might catch you off-guard. I don't really know how you got those instead of "stretch", normal installation points not to "stable".
For updates, try
Code: Select all
apt update
apt full-upgrade

As for the kernel version:
Code: Select all
uname -a
Linux debian 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.88-1 (2018-04-29) x86_64 GNU/Linux

https://packages.debian.org/stretch/lin ... .0-6-amd64
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby debiman » 2018-05-06 14:18

a kernel upgrade requires a full reboot to take effect.
tried that?
alos, laptop specs? the newest hardware usually doesn't run so well with debian stable.
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby rhino777 » 2018-05-06 16:31

I'm winding down for the night, but thanks a lot for the help. Here's some information:

Code: Select all
cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor   : 0
vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family   : 6
model      : 92
model name   : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N3350 @ 1.10GHz
stepping   : 9
microcode   : 0x26
cpu MHz      : 1899.957
cache size   : 1024 KB
physical id   : 0
siblings   : 2
core id      : 0
cpu cores   : 2
apicid      : 0
initial apicid   : 0
fpu      : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level   : 21
wp      : yes
flags      : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc art arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 sdbg cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave rdrand lahf_lm 3dnowprefetch intel_pt tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase tsc_adjust smep erms mpx rdseed smap clflushopt sha_ni xsaveopt xsavec xgetbv1 xsaves dtherm ida arat pln pts
bugs      : monitor
bogomips   : 2188.80
clflush size   : 64
cache_alignment   : 64
address sizes   : 39 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

processor   : 1
vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family   : 6
model      : 92
model name   : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N3350 @ 1.10GHz
stepping   : 9
microcode   : 0x26
cpu MHz      : 1041.656
cache size   : 1024 KB
physical id   : 0
siblings   : 2
core id      : 2
cpu cores   : 2
apicid      : 4
initial apicid   : 4
fpu      : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level   : 21
wp      : yes
flags      : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc art arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 sdbg cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave rdrand lahf_lm 3dnowprefetch intel_pt tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase tsc_adjust smep erms mpx rdseed smap clflushopt sha_ni xsaveopt xsavec xgetbv1 xsaves dtherm ida arat pln pts
bugs      : monitor
bogomips   : 2188.80
clflush size   : 64
cache_alignment   : 64
address sizes   : 39 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:


Code: Select all
hdparm -i /dev/sda

/dev/sda:

 Model=TOSHIBA MQ01ABF050, FwRev=AM002J, SerialNo=Y763SA7WS
 Config={ Fixed }
 RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=0
 BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=8192kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
 CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=976773168
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
 DMA modes:  sdma0 sdma1 sdma2 mdma0 mdma1 mdma2
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5
 AdvancedPM=yes: unknown setting WriteCache=enabled
 Drive conforms to: Unspecified:  ATA/ATAPI-3,4,5,6,7

 * signifies the current active mode


Code: Select all
lsmod
Module                  Size  Used by
udp_diag               16384  0
tcp_diag               16384  0
inet_diag              20480  2 tcp_diag,udp_diag
tun                    28672  0
rfcomm                 77824  14
ctr                    16384  4
ccm                    20480  2
fuse                   98304  3
cpufreq_powersave      16384  0
pci_stub               16384  1
cmac                   16384  1
vboxpci                24576  0
vboxnetadp             28672  0
vboxnetflt             28672  0
bnep                   20480  2
vboxdrv               466944  3 vboxnetadp,vboxnetflt,vboxpci
binfmt_misc            20480  1
nls_ascii              16384  1
nls_cp437              20480  1
vfat                   20480  1
fat                    69632  1 vfat
arc4                   16384  2
joydev                 20480  0
snd_hda_codec_hdmi     49152  1
hid_multitouch         20480  0
uvcvideo               90112  0
btusb                  45056  0
videobuf2_vmalloc      16384  1 uvcvideo
videobuf2_memops       16384  1 videobuf2_vmalloc
videobuf2_v4l2         24576  1 uvcvideo
btrtl                  16384  1 btusb
btbcm                  16384  1 btusb
btintel                16384  1 btusb
videobuf2_core         36864  2 uvcvideo,videobuf2_v4l2
bluetooth             552960  41 btrtl,btintel,bnep,btbcm,rfcomm,btusb
videodev              176128  3 uvcvideo,videobuf2_core,videobuf2_v4l2
media                  40960  2 uvcvideo,videodev
snd_hda_codec_realtek    90112  1
snd_hda_codec_generic    69632  1 snd_hda_codec_realtek
acer_wmi               20480  0
sparse_keymap          16384  1 acer_wmi
i2c_designware_platform    16384  0
i2c_designware_core    20480  1 i2c_designware_platform
snd_soc_skl            65536  0
ath10k_pci             45056  0
snd_soc_skl_ipc        45056  1 snd_soc_skl
ath10k_core           249856  1 ath10k_pci
snd_soc_sst_ipc        16384  1 snd_soc_skl_ipc
intel_rapl             20480  0
rtsx_pci_ms            20480  0
i915                 1236992  24
memstick               20480  1 rtsx_pci_ms
snd_soc_sst_dsp        28672  1 snd_soc_skl_ipc
snd_hda_ext_core       28672  1 snd_soc_skl
ath                    32768  1 ath10k_core
mac80211              671744  1 ath10k_core
cfg80211              589824  3 mac80211,ath,ath10k_core
evdev                  24576  13
snd_soc_sst_match      16384  1 snd_soc_skl
snd_soc_core          212992  1 snd_soc_skl
x86_pkg_temp_thermal    16384  0
snd_compress           20480  1 snd_soc_core
intel_powerclamp       16384  0
coretemp               16384  0
snd_hda_intel          36864  3
kvm_intel             192512  0
snd_hda_codec         135168  4 snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec_realtek
snd_hda_core           81920  7 snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_ext_core,snd_soc_skl,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec_realtek
snd_hwdep              16384  1 snd_hda_codec
snd_pcm_oss            49152  0
kvm                   589824  1 kvm_intel
irqbypass              16384  1 kvm
snd_mixer_oss          24576  1 snd_pcm_oss
snd_pcm               110592  8 snd_pcm_oss,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_hda_ext_core,snd_hda_core,snd_soc_skl,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_soc_core
intel_rapl_perf        16384  0
snd_timer              32768  1 snd_pcm
pcspkr                 16384  0
efi_pstore             16384  0
rfkill                 24576  8 bluetooth,acer_wmi,cfg80211
serio_raw              16384  0
snd                    86016  18 snd_compress,snd_pcm_oss,snd_hda_intel,snd_hwdep,snd_mixer_oss,snd_hda_codec,snd_timer,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_codec_generic,snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_soc_core,snd_pcm
efivars                20480  1 efi_pstore
ac                     16384  0
drm_kms_helper        155648  1 i915
drm                   360448  7 i915,drm_kms_helper
button                 16384  1 i915
battery                20480  0
i2c_algo_bit           16384  1 i915
mei_me                 36864  0
sg                     32768  0
tpm_crb                16384  0
mei                   102400  1 mei_me
dell_smo8800           16384  0
video                  40960  2 acer_wmi,i915
shpchp                 36864  0
idma64                 20480  0
intel_lpss_pci         16384  0
intel_lpss             16384  1 intel_lpss_pci
soundcore              16384  1 snd
wmi                    16384  1 acer_wmi
ipt_REJECT             16384  1
nf_reject_ipv4         16384  1 ipt_REJECT
nf_log_ipv4            16384  6
nf_log_common          16384  1 nf_log_ipv4
xt_LOG                 16384  6
xt_limit               16384  8
xt_tcpudp              16384  33
nf_conntrack_ipv4      16384  6
nf_defrag_ipv4         16384  1 nf_conntrack_ipv4
xt_addrtype            16384  4
xt_conntrack           16384  6
ip6table_filter        16384  1
ip6_tables             28672  1 ip6table_filter
parport_pc             28672  0
nf_conntrack_netbios_ns    16384  0
nf_conntrack_broadcast    16384  1 nf_conntrack_netbios_ns
nf_nat_ftp             16384  0
nf_nat                 24576  1 nf_nat_ftp
ppdev                  20480  0
nf_conntrack_ftp       20480  1 nf_nat_ftp
nf_conntrack          114688  7 nf_conntrack_ftp,nf_conntrack_ipv4,nf_conntrack_broadcast,nf_nat_ftp,nf_conntrack_netbios_ns,xt_conntrack,nf_nat
iptable_filter         16384  1
lp                     20480  0
parport                49152  3 lp,parport_pc,ppdev
efivarfs               16384  1
ip_tables              24576  1 iptable_filter
x_tables               36864  10 xt_LOG,ipt_REJECT,ip_tables,iptable_filter,xt_tcpudp,xt_limit,ip6table_filter,xt_addrtype,xt_conntrack,ip6_tables
autofs4                40960  2
ext4                  585728  7
crc16                  16384  2 bluetooth,ext4
jbd2                  106496  1 ext4
crc32c_generic         16384  0
fscrypto               28672  1 ext4
ecb                    16384  0
mbcache                16384  8 ext4
algif_skcipher         20480  0
af_alg                 16384  1 algif_skcipher
mmc_block              40960  3
dm_crypt               24576  1
dm_mod                118784  18 dm_crypt
sd_mod                 45056  4
rtsx_pci_sdmmc         24576  0
mmc_core              147456  2 rtsx_pci_sdmmc,mmc_block
crct10dif_pclmul       16384  0
crc32_pclmul           16384  0
crc32c_intel           24576  12
ghash_clmulni_intel    16384  0
aesni_intel           167936  10
aes_x86_64             20480  1 aesni_intel
lrw                    16384  1 aesni_intel
gf128mul               16384  1 lrw
glue_helper            16384  1 aesni_intel
ablk_helper            16384  1 aesni_intel
cryptd                 24576  4 ablk_helper,ghash_clmulni_intel,aesni_intel
ahci                   36864  3
libahci                32768  1 ahci
i2c_hid                20480  0
i2c_i801               24576  0
xhci_pci               16384  0
rtsx_pci               57344  2 rtsx_pci_sdmmc,rtsx_pci_ms
mfd_core               16384  2 rtsx_pci,intel_lpss
r8169                  81920  0
i2c_smbus              16384  1 i2c_i801
hid                   122880  2 i2c_hid,hid_multitouch
mii                    16384  1 r8169
xhci_hcd              188416  1 xhci_pci
libata                249856  2 ahci,libahci
usbcore               249856  4 uvcvideo,xhci_pci,btusb,xhci_hcd
usb_common             16384  1 usbcore
scsi_mod              225280  3 sd_mod,libata,sg
thermal                20480  0


Code: Select all
free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           3795        2065         180         140        1550        1303
Swap:          3931           0        3931


I've added backports to sources.list, and I've changed "stable" to "stretch". Thanks for reminding me. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but then I thought about being caught off guard too... just forgot to change it back. :) Note: even after commenting out my apt preferences file (nullifying "pin"), I'm still unable to upgrade to kernel 4.15.

Here's the new sources.list:

Code: Select all
# MAIN
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free

# UPDATES
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free

# SECURITY
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free

# BACKPORTS
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main
deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main


This is the output of "apt full-upgrade":

Code: Select all
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.


and uname -a right afterwards:

Code: Select all
Linux d7 4.9.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u1 (2017-12-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux


By the way. Debian runs surprisingly well on this laptop, even though it's no where near high-end. I'm really pleased with this OS so far.
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rhino777
 
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-05-06 18:10

You don't upgrade the backports kernel, you need to first install it manually:
Code: Select all
apt install -t stretch-backports linux-image-amd64

If that doesn't work, try this:
Code: Select all
apt install -t stretch-backports linux-image-4.15.0-0.bpo.2-amd64

First one is a meta-package that will take care of the future upgrades.
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby debiman » 2018-05-06 18:32

i have no clue what sort of machine that is; i was hoping you'd just tell us, because obviously what you observe is dependent on hardware resources.
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debiman
 
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-05-06 18:42

^It says in the the first code bracket:
https://ark.intel.com/products/95598/In ... to-2_4-GHz
It's an Apollo Lake chip.
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby debiman » 2018-05-06 18:53

^ so that's something rather new, but budget class?
if the rest of the machine is equally specced performance can't really be such a big problem i guess.
could it be too new for stretch?
does it have onboard intel graphics that requires some firmware?
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby rhino777 » 2018-05-07 12:48

debiman wrote:i have no clue what sort of machine that is; i was hoping you'd just tell us, because obviously what you observe is dependent on hardware resources.


Acer Aspire 3
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rhino777
 
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby rhino777 » 2018-05-07 13:18

debiman wrote:^ so that's something rather new, but budget class?
if the rest of the machine is equally specced performance can't really be such a big problem i guess.
could it be too new for stretch?
does it have onboard intel graphics that requires some firmware?


It was one of the cheapest I could get... It does have Intel chipset:

Code: Select all
VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Device 5a85 (rev 0b)


I believe firmware-linux and firmware-linux-nonfree provide the drivers.
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rhino777
 
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Re: Something is grinding D9 to a halt!

Postby rhino777 » 2018-05-07 18:16

It's definitely my browser.

While trying to get to https://creativemarket.com/ the whole system almost locked up. (I had eight tabs open at the time in Chrome... doesn't sound like too much to me. Especially since all eight were finished loading...)

I experienced this in Google Chrome Version 66.0.3359.139 (Official Build) (64-bit).

I've also experienced the same in Chromium 66.0.3359.117 (64-bit). (Although it's not installed at the moment, so I can't reproduce it with that browser.)

Now I'm going to try Firefox ESR 52.7.3 (64-bit).

I'm wondering. Since the problem seems to apply to multiple browsers, is it possible there's a bug in a shared library or something? Any idea how I could isolate it?

(Yup. I just had to hard off and come back to post this. For the record, I also had a terminal open and bluefish running.)
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