Firefox bullshit

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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby pcalvert » 2018-09-30 18:51

bw123 wrote:Do you think you could downgrade? The old ver is still in the repo I just checked...

If possible, it would be better to switch to Palemoon or SeaMonkey.

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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby bw123 » 2018-09-30 19:23

pcalvert wrote:
bw123 wrote:Do you think you could downgrade? The old ver is still in the repo I just checked...

If possible, it would be better to switch to Palemoon or SeaMonkey.

Phil


I've been trying to find out why, if you have time can you explain a little better?
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby stevepusser » 2018-09-30 20:44

Because they still support the XUL extension format that Firefox Quantum disposed of, plus they still get security updates.
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-10-01 07:51

Does Palemoon offer e10s?
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby None1975 » 2018-10-01 13:01

M51 wrote:Just did an apt-get upgrade on Stretch and got my Firefox replaced with the new Quantum bullshit...and all my add-ons are gone.

You are unconcerned person. A cultured person will not write this.
M51 wrote:I can downgrade.

Maybe, but downgrading is not officially supported by the Debian by design. It should be done only as a part of emergency recovery process.
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby stevepusser » 2018-10-01 17:06

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Does Palemoon offer e10s?


I'm fairly certain that's restricted to Firefox.
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby milomak » 2018-10-01 20:07

so the op failed to do his research about firefox and this is debian's fault :lol:
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby M51 » 2018-10-01 21:04

milomak wrote:so the op failed to do his research about firefox and this is debian's fault :lol:


Wrong on all counts. I've long been aware of Firefox Quantum's chicanery and yes the issue is Debian's fault for reasons I'll explain.

Is it the end of the world? No, it just pissed me off briefly. I've long since recovered.

*STABLE* - does not follow bleeding edge. Versions of working software are not replaced higgledy-piggledy, but rather (to quote debian itself) "Stable is recommended for applications requiring production-level stability and security". As such, versions are typically not changed unless necessary.

Now, we all know browsers are the worst of all possible worlds - security nightmare giant balls of insecure code doing nasty insecure things in quite probably the worst possible way. So updates are important. This is without question.

So...either keep up with the latest Mozilla supported nightmare or languish in vulnerability hell.

...but...

Removing add-ons unquestioningly also creates security problems.

So...what's the right thing to do?

firstly: Doing apt-get upgrade on a stable system should not leave a system in a less secure state ***WITHOUT INFORMING THE USER***.

No one should need to research every package update in stable. To insist that is to be stupid and/or disingenuous.

There are *CORRECT* ways of handling a situation like this:

1) Continue with the current version and take the responsibility for patching the vulns. This is apparently so momumental of a task involving the major browsers that we should probably ask ourselves why we trust such unmanageable software to do anything at all, let alone play a central role in our daily lives. I do not blame Debian for not pursuing this path.

-or-

2) Update the version and during the upgrade inform the user that their system will be left in a vulnerable state until action is taken.

Unfortunately, option two was chosen but no notification given. This is a failure of the Debian maintainer's making. The bug that bw123 linked to only reinforces this.

I'd really expect this in something like Arch, or Fedora, but not Debian. Well, not until now...I guess I do now.
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby milomak » 2018-10-01 21:14

you are conflating your personal options with the security of a bare esr 52 and esr 60

that is debian's responsibility

please detail how esr 60 without add ons is more compromised that esr 52?
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby M51 » 2018-10-01 21:22

milomak wrote:you are conflating your personal options with the security of a bare esr 52 and esr 60

that is debian's responsibility

please detail how esr 60 without add ons is more compromised that esr 52?


Non-sequitur. User settings are an integral portion of system security.

You are suggesting the equivalent of updating to a newer kernel is justified in wiping out your iptables rules just because 'the new version is 'less compromised'. That's insane. Especially when all it takes is a message during the update to rectify the problem. packages do this *all the time*.
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby debiman » 2018-10-02 05:50

i might agree that Firefox should make the warning more prominent: after this upgrade, most addons will stop working.
but i wouldn't expect debian maintainers to rewrite firefox just for that.
maybe the warning should have been added during the upgrade process, just like apt does with changed config files etc.
but then again, those addons are completely outside debian's package management...
nah, this is still a fly, you won't be able to make an elephant out of it.
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-10-02 08:53

@OP: please stop shouting, it is unseemly.

You do know there are no Debian Developers here, right?
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby M51 » 2018-10-02 20:23

debiman wrote:i wouldn't expect debian maintainers to rewrite firefox just for that.


Who suggested that? It isn't necessary. Debian packages have the ability to display important messages to users during updates. That is precisely something the maintainer would have sole control over.

debiman wrote:those addons are completely outside debian's package management...


No they aren't. (xul-ext-noscript, xul-ext-useragentswitcher, xul-ext-requestpolicy, etc.)

With the exception of my custom add-ons, the others are all controlled by Debian's package management. But even if they weren't, it's an important (and forseeable) enough change to the core application to justify a message.

debiman wrote:nah, this is still a fly, you won't be able to make an elephant out of it.


Meaningless strawman. What elephant would that be, exactly?

Simply put, the Debian maintainer for Firefox f$%&ed up and I posted my displeasure. I even know Debian developers don't hang around here..at least not officially.

Why post it? Why not? I felt like saying something and I did. Nothing more to it than that.

I don't even particularly care anymore, but it certainly seems there are some people determined to defend/misunderstand things they know little about (not you specifically).

Edit: If I could go back and change my original post - the only thing I'd change is that I'd put it under General Discussion instead of General Questions. That was an honest mistake.
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby franky44 » 2018-10-09 14:32

Dai_trying wrote:I think a refund is in order here, you should write to the developers and request this, I am sure they would oblige. :D


LMAO :lol:

Mighty funny.
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Re: Firefox bullshit

Postby Caitlin » 2018-10-13 11:20

I have to agree with what M51 is saying (although certainly not the way he said it). I'm contemplating doing an upgrade, but want to know: is there some way to upgrade my system EXCEPT FOR FIREFOX? I don't care if my current release of Firefox is EOL, DOA, RIP, or GTH (gone to hell); or if it has enough security holes to supply a cheese factory for some time. I just want to keep what I've got for the time being.

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