installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-07 08:58

ok
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby debiman » 2018-11-08 07:24

MagicPoulp wrote:You need to see the poetry in not using ultra precise expression.

good luck maintaining or even using your operating system with that attitude :mrgreen:
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-08 12:28

debiman wrote:
MagicPoulp wrote:You need to see the poetry in not using ultra precise expression.

good luck maintaining or even using your operating system with that attitude :mrgreen:


As Paul Valéry said: "Certain people have such a confused idea of what poetry is about that their idea itself becomes poetic."

It is like nit-picking when someone uses the words "always" or "all" and mentioning a counter example, showing it is not always the case. One can use imprecise language. An the reason poetry is mentioned is because no one is 100% master of own's own mind as a complex process.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby bw123 » 2018-11-08 14:28

...An the reason poetry is mentioned is because no one is 100% master of own's own mind as a complex process.


It's not your mind, it's your actions you can master with practice. I don't understand the whole thread, even the title is confusing. What does, "... corrupts at totally" mean? Was that a typo for "apt" and why did you think you can install testing pkg of emacs on stable? Why would you want to?

This is pretty well known issue, not easy to run a mixed system sometimes. Many people do it, and put up with random breakage and a weird system that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. It is sort of like poetry, some people like it, some don't. There isn't much of a middle ground, you either love it or hate it.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-09 08:51

bw123 wrote:I don't understand the whole thread, even the title is confusing. What does, "... corrupts at totally" mean? Was that a typo for "apt" and why did you think you can install testing pkg of emacs on stable? Why would you want to?


You cannot keep asking why one would want to install a testing package on stable. I have answered it 10 times already. During a long time in the past emacs25 and emacs-goodies-el had been in testing and not in stable. You have access to more packages and more recent packages in testing than you have in stable.

And the poetry (trolling?) lies in the freestyle discussions. For example, you say that you don't understand the thread and ask questions for which you probably already know the answer. It is poetic because you don't control yourself when loading discussions with feelings.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby debiman » 2018-11-09 10:00

MagicPoulp wrote:And the poetry (trolling?) lies in the freestyle discussions. For example, you say that you don't understand the thread and ask questions for which you probably already know the answer. It is poetic because you don't control yourself when loading discussions with feelings.

so by op's own admission this thread is and has always been totally pointless, from a linux point of view.
fine with me.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-09 10:40

Not at all.

1. In testing, one has access to more packages and more versions.

He is one example unixodbc. Present in testing but not in stable. When a package is present in stable, one can sometimes have a more recent version in testing.

2. That apt or aptitude can get broken and hard to recover, present with the same error in another post.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby bw123 » 2018-11-09 14:58

MagicPoulp wrote:Not at all.

1. In testing, one has access to more packages and more versions.

He is one example unixodbc. Present in testing but not in stable. When a package is present in stable, one can sometimes have a more recent version in testing.

2. That apt or aptitude can get broken and hard to recover, present with the same error in another post.


It doesn't matter if the more recent pkg is available if it doesn't work. You have access to zillions of pkgs from all over the linux world, but they don't all work on stable. It's an old argument you're making, "I mixed repos before and it worked, now it doesn't so something is wrong."

That's like saying you always got away with cheating at cards, so you don't understand why it's a big deal now...

Feelings and poetry aside, it's a repeat thread of "I broke it by mixing repos." They told you that on the first few replies.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby stevepusser » 2018-11-09 18:02

There are also well-known methods for getting newer versions of programs on stable that won't break your install...but you've already been pointed to the reading you need to do.
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Foliate 1.5.3, Minitube 3.1, wine-staging 4.12, Virtual Box 5.2.32 & 6.0.10, Pale Moon 28.6.1, Waterfox 56.2.12
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-12 09:02

bw123 wrote:It doesn't matter if the more recent pkg is available if it doesn't work. You have access to zillions of pkgs from all over the linux world, but they don't all work on stable. It's an old argument you're making, "I mixed repos before and it worked, now it doesn't so something is wrong."


you were answering to this statement: "1. In testing, one has access to more packages and more versions."

No! I persist and sign. I have used many packages from testing. And the cases causing corruption are rare and I can be prepared for corruption using VMs or docker.

Installing ruby-all and ruby-all-dev on testing works very well. And you get more choice of versions than what the stable branch offers.

Concerning the other methods, the backports seem to have much fewer packages than testing. Besides, backports seem to have more dependencies to each other.

Actually, many people would do a better usage of installing the entire debian testing instead of debian stable.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby debiman » 2018-11-14 00:29

MagicPoulp wrote:No! I persist and sign. I have used many packages from testing. And the cases causing corruption are rare and I can be prepared for corruption using VMs or docker.

this is a totally different paradigm.
of course, if you break your vm you can always nuke it, and no recommendation about system stability will have any relevance to you.
you are totally entitled to do things that way, and to be fair, you mentioned that straight away in your first post, but still i look down on you, and fart in your general direction. now go away or i shall taunt you a second time.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-14 11:00

Mixing stable and testing is not supported and is not recommended. If what you do is programming, it is great to to mix stable and testing to have access to more or newer packages. Since the hardware can fail, it is anyways a good practice to have a system that can be reinstalled without troubles and with backed-up data.

I would not mix stable and testing on a production system though. I would use debian testing.

On many Linux distributions, people are used to install from a manually installed file. It think it is nicer to use an official repository such as debian testing.

Why I am not using debian testing directly instead of mixing stable and testing? I got the "feeling" stable is better. By mixing, I can control which packages from testing I want.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-11-14 18:37

MagicPoulp wrote:On many Linux distributions, people are used to install from a manually installed file. It think it is nicer to use an official repository such as debian testing.

No.

The correct solution is to package up the software locally:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=38976

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=130057
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-15 10:40

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:The correct solution is to package up the software locally:


It seems to me that the source package and the pre-built package have the same dependencies.

--> Why would building from source achieve more stability than using the pre-built package?

Correct solution or not, from a practical point of view, installing pre-built packages when it works is fine when we assume one knows it is not recommended or supported to mix repositories. The guys here saw red hearing about mixing branches because they are used to stabilize servers. I am thinking about the desktop experience for which having newer and more packages is nice.

--> Isn't the most supported and recommended solution to install debian testing itself? What are the inconvenients? It may be testing takes more place and is more unstable than a debian stable with a small package from testing that has very few dependencies. Installing the latest ruby-all and ruby-all-dev seems to be quite inoffensive.
Last edited by MagicPoulp on 2018-11-15 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: installing a testing package emacs25 corrupts at totally

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-11-16 06:08

MagicPoulp wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:The correct solution is to package up the software locally:


It seems to me that the source package and the pre-built package have the same dependencies.

No.

As an example, if the package you are installing from testing depends on the version of libc6 from testing then that will break your system.

Building the package in a stable base ensures that only dependencies from stable are needed.

Please read the links I provided, they explain things very well.

MagicPoulp wrote:--> Isn't the most supported and recommended solution to install debian testing itself? What are the inconvenients?

See this section from the debian-user mailing list FAQ:

https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianU ... Testing.3F
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