Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby stevepusser » 2018-12-11 21:56

I doubt that the Ansible PPA could have damaged the system or caused an update to Buster/Sid, but what actually happens remains a mystery.

Upstream Debian now has Timeshift 18.9, which can be used to create system snapshots before one tries messing with a stable system, plus it's easily backportable to Stretch and Jessie, so I'll set up an OBS repo with Jessie and Stretch packages.
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Flightgear 2018.2.2, 4.19.13 kernel, wine-staging 4.0~rc4, Stellarium 0.18.3, VLC 3.0.5, Midori 7.0
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby stevepusser » 2018-12-11 23:25

Timeshift 18.9 Jessie and Stretch backports: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show ... /timeshift
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Flightgear 2018.2.2, 4.19.13 kernel, wine-staging 4.0~rc4, Stellarium 0.18.3, VLC 3.0.5, Midori 7.0
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby Scorpion » 2018-12-12 13:01

stevepusser wrote:I doubt that the Ansible PPA could have damaged the system or caused an update to Buster/Sid, but what actually happens remains a mystery.

Upstream Debian now has Timeshift 18.9, which can be used to create system snapshots before one tries messing with a stable system, plus it's easily backportable to Stretch and Jessie, so I'll set up an OBS repo with Jessie and Stretch packages.

Yes I think so.
A system snapshot what is exactly? I can use it to restore the system?
Anyway now I can' t make a bootable usb that pc refuses to work.
isobin corrupted or missing with dvd1 9.5, dvd1 9.6 non-free, live ldxe.non-free
I used the netinstaller the first time so I used again but I get only this:
_
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby Scorpion » 2018-12-12 13:30

That pc has another OS that works, so it is not totally defective (is a little old).
I tried another iso but:
Code: Select all
_

I used 2 usb sticks.
So maybe the bios or something is defective? I cannot use bootable usb on that pc anymore.
I never did a bootable dvd. Best way?
Can I use burn option with brasero?
Edit I found how https://wiki.debian.org/BurnCd#Burn_the ... D.2C_or_BD
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby stevepusser » 2018-12-13 01:25

Scorpion wrote:
stevepusser wrote:I doubt that the Ansible PPA could have damaged the system or caused an update to Buster/Sid, but what actually happens remains a mystery.

Upstream Debian now has Timeshift 18.9, which can be used to create system snapshots before one tries messing with a stable system, plus it's easily backportable to Stretch and Jessie, so I'll set up an OBS repo with Jessie and Stretch packages.

Yes I think so.
A system snapshot what is exactly? I can use it to restore the system?
Anyway now I can' t make a bootable usb that pc refuses to work.
isobin corrupted or missing with dvd1 9.5, dvd1 9.6 non-free, live ldxe.non-free
I used the netinstaller the first time so I used again but I get only this:
_


Yes, that's what a system snapshot means. In case Google doesn't work for you:
Timeshift

Timeshift for Linux is an application that provides functionality similar to the System Restore feature in Windows and the Time Machine tool in Mac OS. Timeshift protects your system by taking incremental snapshots of the file system at regular intervals. These snapshots can be restored at a later date to undo all changes to the system.

In RSYNC mode, snapshots are taken using rsync and hard-links. Common files are shared between snapshots which saves disk space. Each snapshot is a full system backup that can be browsed with a file manager.

In BTRFS mode, snapshots are taken using the in-built features of the BTRFS filesystem. BTRFS snapshots are supported only on BTRFS systems having an Ubuntu-type subvolume layout (with @ and @home subvolumes).

Timeshift is similar to applications like rsnapshot, BackInTime and TimeVault but with different goals. It is designed to protect only system files and settings. User files such as documents, pictures and music are excluded. This ensures that your files remains unchanged when you restore your system to an earlier date. If you need a tool to backup your documents and files please take a look at the excellent BackInTime application which is more configurable and provides options for saving user files.

Features
Minimal Setup

Timeshift requires very little setup. Just install it, run it for the first time and take the first snapshot. Cron job can be enabled for taking automatic snapshots of the system at regular intervals. The backup levels can be selected from the Settings window.

Snapshots are saved by default on the system (root) partition in path /timeshift. Other linux partitions can also be selected. For best results the snapshots should be saved to an external (non-system) partition.
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Flightgear 2018.2.2, 4.19.13 kernel, wine-staging 4.0~rc4, Stellarium 0.18.3, VLC 3.0.5, Midori 7.0
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby VA1DER » 2018-12-20 14:30

stevepusser wrote:Timeshift 18.9 Jessie and Stretch backports: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show ... /timeshift

Hi Steve. Thanks for making that. This will be very useful for me upgrading a server. I'm wondering if there is a location where this can be obtained that doesn't require a login to obtain? Even with KeePass the number of logins I have to maintain for one-shot downloads is becoming appalling. Why they enforce logins for downloads is beyond me, but that's outside this discussion.

Not to be too critical, but I find it mildly ironic that Scorpion's feet were being held to the fire for installing "random" stuff from "random" web sites and then one of the solutions that was proposed for the future is that he install a random version of Timeshift from an unofficial location following instructions in a random forum thread. If we want novices not to do that sort of behaviour, perhaps we shouldn't encourage it here. We can't hold novices to the standard of being able to discern good advice from bad advice, so we need to hold them to the standard of best practices. And if installing random packages from unofficial sources is, as is suggested here and which I agree with, not a best practice for a novice, then what do we need to do to get Timeshift 18.9 in as an official backport to Jessie and Stretch? This so that it can be suggested to other novices without asking them to violate best practices.
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby Bulkley » 2018-12-20 15:50

VA1DER, Your comment has some validity. The way I see it is that we want users to start with clean systems. Eventually everyone tweaks a system. What leads to trouble is tweaking without knowing where the gold standard is. What is even worse is adding a repository to the sources list in order to get a particular package and then leaving it open. Over a year or two there's no telling how much stray stuff comes in with each routine update.

This is Linux. We have access to the source code and can do anything. What is required is knowledge. Without it, tweaking just makes a mess.
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby Scorpion » 2018-12-20 16:20

VA1DER wrote:Not to be too critical, but I find it mildly ironic that Scorpion's feet were being held to the fire for installing "random" stuff from "random" web sites and then one of the solutions that was proposed for the future is that he install a random version of Timeshift from an unofficial location following instructions in a random forum thread

I didn' t think about that :)
I used github anyway https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift on one pc I built it and on another I installed the generic linux 64 bit.
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby xepan » 2018-12-20 17:46

VA1DER wrote:
stevepusser wrote: ....

Not to be too critical, but I find it mildly ironic that Scorpion's feet were being held to the fire for installing "random" stuff from "random" web sites and then one of the solutions that was proposed for the future is that he install a random version of Timeshift from an unofficial location following instructions in a random forum thread. If we want novices not to do that sort of behaviour, perhaps we shouldn't encourage it here. We can't hold novices to the standard of being able to discern good advice from bad advice, so we need to hold them to the standard of best practices. And if installing random packages from unofficial sources is, as is suggested here and which I agree with, not a best practice for a novice, then what do we need to do to get Timeshift 18.9 in as an official backport to Jessie and Stretch? This so that it can be suggested to other novices without asking them to violate best practices.

While this makes sense, one thing is not said:
stevepussser is not "a random source". He is very well known at this place (at other places like MX and antix too, perhaps even more), and has what you could call "quite a reputation". And that for years, probably rather decades.
I for one sure would trust packages build by him more than packages build by me (which is the general advise: backport it yourself, after quite some consideration if you really need it that hard, but in general stick to what you will find in the default repos).
How would a novice notice that? Now that is a deep question ...
I got no answer.

on a sidenote.
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby stevepusser » 2018-12-20 19:42

VA1DER wrote:
stevepusser wrote:Timeshift 18.9 Jessie and Stretch backports: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show ... /timeshift

Hi Steve. Thanks for making that. This will be very useful for me upgrading a server. I'm wondering if there is a location where this can be obtained that doesn't require a login to obtain? Even with KeePass the number of logins I have to maintain for one-shot downloads is becoming appalling. Why they enforce logins for downloads is beyond me, but that's outside this discussion.

Not to be too critical, but I find it mildly ironic that Scorpion's feet were being held to the fire for installing "random" stuff from "random" web sites and then one of the solutions that was proposed for the future is that he install a random version of Timeshift from an unofficial location following instructions in a random forum thread. If we want novices not to do that sort of behaviour, perhaps we shouldn't encourage it here. We can't hold novices to the standard of being able to discern good advice from bad advice, so we need to hold them to the standard of best practices. And if installing random packages from unofficial sources is, as is suggested here and which I agree with, not a best practice for a novice, then what do we need to do to get Timeshift 18.9 in as an official backport to Jessie and Stretch? This so that it can be suggested to other novices without asking them to violate best practices.


You make some good points, but I guess you have to go by reputation and past performance. Ubuntu PPAs...not so good on Debian. Me: pretty good with backports in the past on this forum, and am the lead backporter/packager for the highly rated and ranked (at least at Distrowatch) MX Linux.

But the way to get Timeshift 18.9 into stretch-backports would be to request it on the backports mailing list, then hope someone picks it up.

You also don't need a login to get the Timeshift package from the OBS if you choose to "grab the binary package directly" instead of following the directions to add the repo from the "Download Package" link. Since Timeshift is a single-deb program and doesn't require any dependencies not in the standard Stretch repo, it should be easy to install on a Stretch system with standard methods.

Edit: You could also backport Timeshift yourself on the OBS from the Debian sources; you might find it actually interesting, and it's not that difficult! Here's a guide I wrote: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=130057
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Flightgear 2018.2.2, 4.19.13 kernel, wine-staging 4.0~rc4, Stellarium 0.18.3, VLC 3.0.5, Midori 7.0
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby VA1DER » 2018-12-21 00:54

stevepusser wrote:You make some good points, but I guess you have to go by reputation and past performance. Ubuntu PPAs...not so good on Debian. Me: pretty good with backports in the past on this forum, and am the lead backporter/packager for the highly rated and ranked (at least at Distrowatch) MX Linux.


I have no issue with your backports. My suggestion isn't that there is any issue at all with your work, or that you are untrustworthy in any way. I've seen your work and many of your posts before. "Random" in the context I used it is simply from a novice's perspective. For someone who has little exposure to the community it's just one more voice saying it's ok, this package is good it won't hurt your system at all. Then when it works as advertised, the novice then trusts another out-of-channel package or package source... anyway, point made.

stevepusser wrote:But the way to get Timeshift 18.9 into stretch-backports would be to request it on the backports mailing list, then hope someone picks it up.


I'll go ahead and do this and see how it goes. Officially supporting this as a backport is useful, especially since Jessie is EoL and it's a useful tool to put out there for those wanting to upgrade. This is what pricked up my ears in this thread (and apologies to Scorpion for somewhat hijacking this thread since I can't offer any more assistance than has been given for the original problem).

stevepusser wrote:You also don't need a login to ... "grab the binary package directly"


I actually wanted the source to look at your backport, but the guide you wrote and pointed me to should do nicely. Thanks very kindly for that. I need to make a backport for OpenSSL 1.1.1a for Jessie.

Actually, with respect to the original issue, would it be worth booting off media and chroot-ing into the system to try and revert it, or is it likely too messy? I've had success with that technique myself after a bad upgrade.
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby stevepusser » 2018-12-21 23:34

You can actually get into OBS repos to get the sources without logging in with two mouse clicks--think of it as a point & click game! But here's a shortcut to Timeshift's: https://download.opensuse.org/repositor ... ebian_9.0/

I don't have a clue about chrooting to fix your problem, though...
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Flightgear 2018.2.2, 4.19.13 kernel, wine-staging 4.0~rc4, Stellarium 0.18.3, VLC 3.0.5, Midori 7.0
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

Postby Scorpion » 2018-12-22 12:57

I reinstalled the system since I did not have many things on that pc.
I don' t know why now I cannot use anymore bootable usb to install systems on that pc.
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