Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partition?

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Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partition?

Postby debian121212 » 2019-01-04 01:34

Im about to dual boot install NTFS Windows 10 after EXT4 Debian 9 however it now occurs to me that the NTFS Windows 10 partition is capable of then negatively affecting the EXT4 Debian 9 partition's contents.

I've heard that Windows and MS Products can damage the contents of the original ext4 Debian partition if both operating systems are installed side by side.

Is Debian 9 truly 100 per cent iron clad safe from a secondary Windows 10 OS install on the side in the same computer?

Anyone got any clear hard evidence that indeed dual booting a windows install with something else can have windows kill or interfere with the other OS? And I'm not talking about the official upgrade thing where it deletes the Linux partitions, I'm talking about malware/hacking being possible towards EXT4 Debian 9 just because you have a NTFS Windows 10 dual boot install on the side for use once in a blue moon.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby debian121212 » 2019-01-05 01:28

Judging by the fact that there is only like 2 who claim that your Debian is at risk if you install win 10 on the side, and that many more claim that you will be fine especially if you just use the minimum internet with antivirus on win and encrypt your debian partition, Im feeling more and more like giving it a try.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-01-05 10:10

debian121212 wrote:I've heard that Windows and MS Products can damage the contents of the original ext4 Debian partition if both operating systems are installed side by side.

Win10 uses a hybrid sleep mode known as "Fast Startup" [sic] and this can cause damage to any GNU/Linux partitions unless it is disabled.

It is also likely to reset the boot order on UEFI machines and mess up the system clock unless you force it to use UTC.

But I don't think Windows malware can affect other partitions directly.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby p.H » 2019-01-05 11:47

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Windows "Fast Startup" can cause damage to any GNU/Linux partitions

Can you elaborate ?
AFAIK, fast startup leaves only mounted filesystems dirty. The most common effect is that a GNU/Linux system will not mount Window's filesystems because they are dirty. So unless you add support for Linux filesystems in Windows or install Linux on FAT or NTFS (which I do not think is possible, except on special setups such as using a Linux filesystem image in a FAT or NTFS filesystem), I do not see how fast startup could damage unmounted Linux partitions.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:It is also likely to reset the boot order on UEFI machines

Just like any other operating system, including Debian. Not only on UEFI setups, also on BIOS setups (although not in the BIOS boot settings but in the MBR).
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-01-05 11:51

p.H wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Windows "Fast Startup" can cause damage to any GNU/Linux partitions

Can you elaborate ?

Not really, I'm just repeating common advice. Thanks for the correction if it was nonsense.

I don't run Windows on the metal on my machine so I'm not sure of the specifics but I do disable Fast Startup on the family laptop because I don't trust MS :)

p.H wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:It is also likely to reset the boot order on UEFI machines

Just like any other operating system, including Debian. Not only on UEFI setups, also on BIOS setups (although not in the BIOS boot settings but in the MBR).

And what has that to do with the OP's question?
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby p.H » 2019-01-05 11:59

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Thanks for the correction if it was nonsense.

It was not a correction. AFAIK = I don't claim I know everything.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:And what has that to do with the OP's question?

Just pointing out that it was not specific to Windows, and anyone using multiboot with any operating systems should expect this.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby millpond » 2019-01-05 18:58

When installing Win (any version) it is best advised to physically remove or disable the Linux drive(s).
Install Win.
Then reattach the Linux drive(s).

On many if not most modern systems you should have the bios option on what drive to boot from. With this method, a Win boot should disregard the Linux drives. Linux should ignore the Win drives on booting, unless Grub is activated.

OR

You can update grub on the Linux install and face a classic dual-boot configuration. But this will rewrite the Win disk boot partition, potentially causing problems with newer version of Win ( I dont go beyond 7 on bare metal). (Back up mbr's if using this method. )

Personally I prefer the bios boot mehod. I hate Grub.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby debian121212 » 2019-01-05 20:41

I appreciate all of your answers,

However, we still don't have a post of clear hard evidence of win 10 partition messing up the debian partition post yet.

What I'm trying to get at is "are you 100 per cent sure it was windows"

Cause if you dual boot then the fact that "any problem" will now automatically be windows the first culprit is bad enough to not do it a lot at least at my level of understanding.

Thing is my computer is dated and doesn't support virtualization.

Ill just delete debian/everything, take care of problem in windows, then delete windows and install debian again, as I have to get some stuff from XDA and possibly some heavy surfing on dubious download sites to get the software necessary to root my s7 with ODIN, which is why Im having to use win. I cant get a new physical hard drive for windows.

What would be good is a Windows Live CD or something like that. Any knowledge of a Windows Live CD solution that doesn't mess up your debian?

Possible Solutions:
1. Windows Live CD solution that absolutely cannot mess with the debian partition
2. Borrow someone's windows computer (most obvious, is what ill end up doing probably)
3. A full back and forth from debian to windows and then from windows to debian with no dual boot ever in the process as to isolate problems if there is anything
4. Dual boot with separate physical hard drives , debian encrypted, as much anti virus on windows as is correct, and keeping internet use on windows to minimum/for emergency, then get rid of the win as soon as possible.

I intend to play a video game or 2 in the future with a new computer with full graphics bells and whistles like they dont allow on linux, so Ill have to go the 2 hard drives route in that case

I HATE MICROSOFT.
Last edited by debian121212 on 2019-01-07 04:50, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby debian121212 » 2019-01-05 20:42

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
debian121212 wrote:I've heard that Windows and MS Products can damage the contents of the original ext4 Debian partition if both operating systems are installed side by side.

Win10 uses a hybrid sleep mode known as "Fast Startup" [sic] and this can cause damage to any GNU/Linux partitions unless it is disabled.

It is also likely to reset the boot order on UEFI machines and mess up the system clock unless you force it to use UTC.

But I don't think Windows malware can affect other partitions directly.


Great to know. Even if you arent a billion per cent laser sharp sure, its still very good to know and disable all of this potential problem from ever happening if its just a click away anyway
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-01-05 22:50

debian121212 wrote:root my s7 with ODIN

Does Heimdall not work for you?

Most guides I can find say it's better than ODIN anyway, it certainly worked for my i9300 SIII.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby jibberjabber » 2019-01-06 01:35

When some one wants to use windows, they invent any excuse they can think of, what a hypocrite:
Postby debian121212 ----snip---
I HATE MICROSOFT.

Yet, you make so much effort, and discussion on how to install their product,
If you really hated microsoft, and did not want to use their products, you would not use them, nor even think about it, you would look for better alternatives,
and if and when there aren't any, help work on developing the kind of program you need, in this case no need to do that, one all ready exits, as mentioned by H-O-A-S:
by Head_on_a_Stick »Does Heimdall not work for you?

Most guides I can find say it's better than ODIN anyway, it certainly worked for my i9300 SIII.

The phone thing, and the silly games, are just excuses, because you want to use MS windows, no need to pretend other wise, and you can also use Debian or Linux as well, dual boot, or on another PC, whatever.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby debian121212 » 2019-01-07 04:51

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
debian121212 wrote:root my s7 with ODIN

Does Heimdall not work for you?

Most guides I can find say it's better than ODIN anyway, it certainly worked for my i9300 SIII.


Not possible with helmdal all the time
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby debian121212 » 2019-01-07 04:53

jibberjabber wrote:When some one wants to use windows, they invent any excuse they can think of, what a hypocrite:
Postby debian121212 ----snip---
I HATE MICROSOFT.

Yet, you make so much effort, and discussion on how to install their product,
If you really hated microsoft, and did not want to use their products, you would not use them, nor even think about it, you would look for better alternatives,
and if and when there aren't any, help work on developing the kind of program you need, in this case no need to do that, one all ready exits, as mentioned by H-O-A-S:
by Head_on_a_Stick »Does Heimdall not work for you?

Most guides I can find say it's better than ODIN anyway, it certainly worked for my i9300 SIII.

The phone thing, and the silly games, are just excuses, because you want to use MS windows, no need to pretend other wise, and you can also use Debian or Linux as well, dual boot, or on another PC, whatever.


Not excuses.
Some things windows is the only way bc the developers suck. licensing, etc

Like right now, you cant play WoW with the FULL BELLS AND WHISTLES on debian, at least I spent like a month setting it up to the max, and couldnt get close to the full experience on the windows

And im a developer myself

No hypocrite, its the hard reality. Everyone knows that microsoft has licensing things set up with certain manufacturers or that they dont design the right drivers or whatever and you cant always get the best drivers for the hardware etc

Im sure theres even some who are forced by their job to use a microsoft product somehow, does not make them hypocrites either . this is my case bc i need tethering where i live the internet is horrible and requires root

I guess im a hypocrite because i have a free one drive as well

And helmdal as well as odin are not perfect software they both can not work so you might need windows about it

Im just going to borrow someone's windows after reading all of this incredible amount of microsoft allowing the government to hack you level of they suck on purpose

Not that easy
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby stevepusser » 2019-01-08 00:12

Heimdall-flash is still 1.4.1 in Debian, but a certain Stretch-compatible distro has 1.4.2 in a test repo...

https://repology.org/metapackage/heimda ... h/versions

I would also say just backup Debian first before installing Windows...you should do regular backups anyways. I think the chances of Debian getting ruined by hardware failure or a cosmic ray are greatervthan Windows malware messing up Debian.

I also have Win10 dual boot on two laptops, but hardly ever boot it up. I thought the hibernation switch was a "fast shutdown" switch myself. "Fast startup" is an option in most BIOS setups that everyone recommends turning off, but really, that has no effect on Linux booting. I think they are confusing it with the Windows setting.
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Re: Secondary dual boot Windows 10 kills main Debian partiti

Postby debian121212 » 2019-01-08 02:52

stevepusser wrote:I think the chances of Debian getting ruined by hardware failure or a cosmic ray are than Windows malware messing up Debian.


You mean "I think the chances of Debian getting ruined by hardware failure or a cosmic ray are *GREATER* than Windows malware messing up Debian?

You think a 40 dollar separate hard drive is worth it just to root my phone and play WoW with the full graphical bells and whistles or not necessary?

They charge like 50 USD just to unblock my phone which is just flash a custom firmware so I'd rather get a 50 USD hard drive inside the box to run win 10 on the metal if theres no ability to virtualization, and besides for a high end bells and whistles graphical driver feature centric video game experience virtualization is not good enough compared to on the metal windows on a separate HD, am I correct?
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