Is Chromium safe?

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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby sunrat » 2019-03-17 23:53

debiandonder wrote:How to I access that program?


https://lmsptfy.com/?q=memtester%20how%20to%20use
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby debiandonder » 2019-03-18 00:19

:lol:
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby MagicPoulp » 2019-03-18 08:56

What does the syslog say when it freezes?

Since the CPU heat and other factors affect the system failures, you should be ready to run memtester just after your freeze.
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby stevepusser » 2019-03-18 18:17

0ad and Chromium can also stress the system, leading to lockups from overheating, so I would monitor your CPU temperatures in real time to see how high they get when running those programs. There are a variety of ways to do this, depending on your desktop and your preferences. I like to have mine in the taskbar--right now it's been at 89C (190F) for a while as I backport various versions of the new Liquorix 5.0 kernel with all cores at 100%. :)
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Chromium 78.0.3904.87, Hedgewars 1.0.0, PulseEffects 4.6.8, Telegram-desktop 1.8.15, Pale Moon 28.7.2, KeepassXC 2.5.0
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby MagicPoulp » 2019-03-19 11:59

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
MagicPoulp wrote:Install scripts or scriptlets are not always used. I don't udnerstand why there is not an option to install packages while disabling install scripts, or making sure no install scripts is used.

Because any install scripts that are provided are usually necessary for the package to work correctly.

And as I already mentioned systemd unit files can also be used maliciously and will be enabled and started automatically by APT so that wouldn't remove the risk completely.

MagicPoulp wrote:On Windows, a program install cannot do whatever it wants ever with root priviledges (UAC).

That's because Windows users don't have official package repositories from which software can be safely installed so they end up downloading software from random websites, which is *very* risky indeed. And I think most users just click away the UAC crap without even reading it...

MagicPoulp wrote:Maybe I don't understand why it must be the way it is on linux.

Doug Gwyn wrote:UNIX was not designed to stop its users from doing stupid things, as that would also stop them from doing clever things.


So for the chrome .deb file, I can unpack it and check the scriptlets. And before I update it with apt-get, I can do the same. apt-get has an option -d to just download.

So if one wants to be careful, one can check the scriptlets. So this means chrome does not have full controll over my computer when I use their .deb and their repository for updates. Because I can check the scriptlets.
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-03-19 12:19

MagicPoulp wrote:I can check the scriptlets.

The post install script is 457 lines long, are you good at interpreting bash?

And anyway the Chrome browser is a 137MiB binary blob with no source code available, it could be doing anything and you wouldn't have a clue.

See also https://xkcd.com/1200/
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby debiandonder » 2019-03-19 13:56

Chrome is more reliable than Chromium in the Debian repository. No freezes of the entire system.

Relatability is more important for many people than privacy.
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby MagicPoulp » 2019-03-19 14:40

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
MagicPoulp wrote:I can check the scriptlets.

The post install script is 457 lines long, are you good at interpreting bash?

And anyway the Chrome browser is a 137MiB binary blob with no source code available, it could be doing anything and you wouldn't have a clue.

See also https://xkcd.com/1200/


The browser's binary is not run with sudo. You only risk personal data, not to give control of your computer.

Those bash script are quite easy to read. There are 2 scripts of that size. It took me only a few minutes to see they look inoffensive.

That is useful knowledge. Scriplets can have total control but one can just look at them to check them first.

I think I should look more at the source code in general. It is better than long debates about if something can be trusted. yes I can't read all the linux source code. But many people can read many different parts. So the open sourcing makes it reviewed and trustable.

One day there will be a linux distro giving the number of people that reviewed each file. THat will be the ultimate secured system.

Imagine a system where each file and each mechanism is reviewed by 10000 people. I would trust it more.

Even if you totally secure your browser and have your OS stripped to the strict minumum, your internet provider and network can be monitored. Even encryption in the network can be decyphered.
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby sunrat » 2019-03-19 22:21

debiandonder wrote:Chrome is more reliable than Chromium in the Debian repository. No freezes of the entire system.

Relatability is more important for many people than privacy.


You should be careful with generalisations. What may be true for you may not be true for others.
I never had any freezes with Chromium, or recently with Firefox for that matter.
I still trust Firefox to be more secure and private than Chromium (or Chrome, shudder), especially after making a few tweaks to config. It's not nearly as possible to configure Chrome based browsers for extra security.
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby debiandonder » 2019-03-19 23:31

I was referring to my own experience. Chrome never froze on Ubuntu 14.04 or Debian 9. Firefox snap version did freeze my system while using Ubuntu.

Firefox is easier to configure using about:config or just the preferences section, but sometimes the sound is a bit low on some websites. I then go to Chrome and use the Sound Master volume control add-on. Firefox doesn't work well with Memrise website while Chrome works flawlessly.

Anyway, I have found that some old version of a program can cause problems and some very new version can also cause the same problems.

I moved to Debian from Ubuntu 14.04 because I read a lot of bad feedback about Ubuntu 18.04 being less stable than previous versions. I think I will try MX Linux (Firefox rapid release included) in a month or two. It seems more user-friendly than Debian itself, for people who want to install and forget about the OS.
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby sunrat » 2019-03-19 23:42

debiandonder wrote:I think I will try MX Linux (Firefox rapid release included) in a month or two. It seems more user-friendly than Debian itself, for people who want to install and forget about the OS.

Sounds like a great idea. The nice people at MX go to a lot of trouble to make it like that. Debian is more a raw canvas you have to paint to make it how you like.
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby debiandonder » 2019-03-19 23:54

I agree about Debian being a raw canvas and mine is pretty painted over with various layers. It looks like the painting "The Scream" right now, but everything finely works, except I can't get 0 A.D. to work without freezing the whole system. It doesn't matter much anyway because my graphics card broke two weeks ago and the old AMD A10-5800k built in graphics cores isn't meant to do much gaming. I just have the standard head sink and fan. I saw a video of an AMD A12 with some cooling upgrade and it's performance improved a lot. Maybe they overclocked it.

I just thought that maybe Chrome is more stable because more people tested it before the stable release comes out?
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-03-20 10:10

debiandonder wrote:AMD A10-5800k built in graphics

So you have installed the non-free firmware required by that device, right?

debiandonder wrote:I just thought that maybe Chrome is more stable because more people tested it before the stable release comes out?

It is unlikely that any Debian users would want to use or test a proprietary browser and anyway new versions of Chrome are upgraded to immediately on release if you've installed the .deb from Google, there is no testing at all — you are the guinea pig for that version and you will be the one who first encounters all the shiny new bugs that the big G has included in that release.
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby MagicPoulp » 2019-03-20 14:21

Despite improvements with Firefox Quantum, it still seems to me that Chrome is slightly faster.

If one already uses google gmail, there is no good reason to not use proprietary chrome.

The web moves faster. When the W3C actions get implemented, it may be that chromium will wait for some time while chrome has it several months before. Note that firefox has it already.
https://www.w3.org/TR/webdriver1/#actions
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Re: Is Chromium safe?

Postby debiandonder » 2019-03-20 23:49

I use only open source driver because in the past AMD drivers changed the resolution to 5000 and it could not be changed.

I have found that some websites with video like NOS Live don't work anymore after a chrome update and I then have to use Firefox to watch that news. Chrome however have not frozen my whole system like the Chromium version in the Debian repository.

Chrome also updates more than either Firefox ESR or Firefox rapid release on my Debian 9 system. Apart from that Firefox sometimes works in slow motion before going into something I clicked on. It didn't do that when I installed Debian in February this year.
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