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AMD or Intel for debian
AMD or Intel for debian
Building a computer. Do I do AMD or intel for linux operating systems. What will be faster. Will I be able to overclock them or will it be the base speed?
Re: AMD or Intel for debian
A lot of what you are asking here the answer is "it depends". If you have massively parallel workloads like video/compiling you want to go with AMD. Otherwise the stronger IPC of Intel will win for your workloads.
I don't particularly care for overclocking so I am not the one to answer.
I don't particularly care for overclocking so I am not the one to answer.
Always on Debian Testing
Re: AMD or Intel for debian
I am doing a lot of web browsing (lots of tabs), inkscape, Programs like office. Not games. For this what should I do?
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
The one you like the best.asd1234 wrote:I am doing a lot of web browsing (lots of tabs), inkscape, Programs like office. Not games. For this what should I do?
Just for reference i have an old 2.2ghz intel core 2 duo in the other room that can run firefox with around 15 tabs open, and a few other things at the same time and it doesn't skip a beat.
So you don't need anything special just for normal everyday browsing, netflix,youtube etc etc.
Although if it was me I would get the fastest most current, most efficient hardware I could for the money I had to spend leaving branding up to what I was used to.
Unless you are anal about having the fastest this and that it isn't going to matter much.
I prefer AMD because it is what I have always used except 2 of the machines I have right now because of the deal with how I got them.
But you would never catch me spending money on intels backdoor factory.
In the end it's really only personal preference that matters and which you can get the better deal on.
Unless you insist on having the fastest newest best everything then you need to do some research.
I am not saying go buy a 3 generation old cpu and you'll be happy either don't take me the wrong way.
Re: AMD or Intel for debian
I use AMD myself; no complaints.
if you are concerned about security see for instance what the Free Software Foundation says here.
if you are concerned about security see for instance what the Free Software Foundation says here.
DebianStable
Code: Select all
$ vrms
No non-free or contrib packages installed on debian! rms would be proud.
Re: AMD or Intel for debian
Amd is less (or not?) vulnerable to the Spectre/meltdown vulnerabilities. Though for the workloads you are showing intel would probably be faster. All I can say is if I built a custom Linux box right now it would run Ryzen.
Always on Debian Testing
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
From my Ryzen laptop:vbrummond wrote:Amd is less (or not?) vulnerable to the Spectre/meltdown vulnerabilities.
Code: Select all
E485:~$ grep -R . /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2:Mitigation: Full AMD retpoline, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/mds:Not affected
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/l1tf:Not affected
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spec_store_bypass:Mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v1:Mitigation: __user pointer sanitization
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown:Not affected
E485:~$
Even Intel's new 9th generation processors are still vulnerable to all the exploits listed in my output and require hardware & firmware mitigation to deal with them: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... dware.html
And bear in mind that there will almost certainly be more side-channel exploits that we don't know about yet so hyperthreading should probably be disabled manually (with the nosmt kernel parameter) by any security-conscious Intel users. It would be nice if the kernel developers would do this automatically (like the OpenBSD developers do) but apparently Intel donate too much money to the Linux Foundation...
The mitigations required by Intel's crappy processor design hits their performance pretty badly and AMD's new ThreadRipper Ryzen chips can now outperform Intel's best once they are enabled: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ctre&num=1
+1vbrummond wrote:if I built a custom Linux box right now it would run Ryzen
Note that AMD have their own remote management backdoor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platf ... _Processorkedeha wrote:if you are concerned about security see for instance what the Free Software Foundation says here.
deadbang
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
I use Intel myself, no complaints.
Really if your computer is at home behind a router using NAT, most of these vulnerabilities are practically academic. I'd only be majorly concerned if running servers and/or enterprise deployments.
Really if your computer is at home behind a router using NAT, most of these vulnerabilities are practically academic. I'd only be majorly concerned if running servers and/or enterprise deployments.
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ” Remember to BACKUP!
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ” Remember to BACKUP!
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
You really shouldn't spread misinformation like this.sunrat wrote:I use Intel myself, no complaints.
Really if your computer is at home behind a router using NAT, most of these vulnerabilities are practically academic. I'd only be majorly concerned if running servers and/or enterprise deployments.
Don't under estimate what a bored hacker or a dork script kidde will go after.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network ... ranslation
NAT exactly used to protect you from anything.
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
Please give an example of where these vulnerabilities have been used to compromise a home system as I described.theblueplll wrote:You really shouldn't spread misinformation like this.sunrat wrote:I use Intel myself, no complaints.
Really if your computer is at home behind a router using NAT, most of these vulnerabilities are practically academic. I'd only be majorly concerned if running servers and/or enterprise deployments.
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ” Remember to BACKUP!
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ” Remember to BACKUP!
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
You implied that it wouldn't happen and one shouldn't bother trying to mitigate it and I said it could and not to underemstimate people.sunrat wrote:Please give an example of where these vulnerabilities have been used to compromise a home system as I described.theblueplll wrote:You really shouldn't spread misinformation like this.sunrat wrote:I use Intel myself, no complaints.
Really if your computer is at home behind a router using NAT, most of these vulnerabilities are practically academic. I'd only be majorly concerned if running servers and/or enterprise deployments.
A vast majority of home users would never know that something did happen and if it did either their data wasn't totally deleted and just copied or the hacker was just curious and looking around or their machine failed and some dork the local shop just reinstalled their OS and said here ya go it's all better.
So there really isn't and example to give.
I can't prove that it did you can't prove that it didn't.
Just mostly meant that there is no reason not to protect one self as much as they can.
Now I will agree that most people that would know how to attempt such an attack wouldn't bother messing with grandma and her facebook login.
Just discussing not trying to argue or start anything.
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
NAT does not protect the user from Spectre & Meltdown, they can be exploited through the browser using javascript: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/ ... sa2018-01/sunrat wrote:Really if your computer is at home behind a router using NAT, most of these vulnerabilities are practically academic. I'd only be majorly concerned if running servers and/or enterprise deployments.
https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/guidance/meltdo ... e-guidanceNational Cyber Security Centre wrote:the vulnerabilities may be exploitable from within application sandboxes (including web browsers), so take care when executing any untrusted code, including JavaScript on web pages
Wrong.CwF wrote:For the average home user it's not practically academic, it's purely academic.
^ This.bluepill wrote:A vast majority of home users would never know that something did happen and if it did either their data wasn't totally deleted and just copied or the hacker was just curious and looking around or their machine failed and some dork the local shop just reinstalled their OS and said here ya go it's all better.
Absence of evidence != evidence of absence.
deadbang
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
Yes, you are.CwF wrote:For the average home user it's not practically academic, it's purely academic.
Wrong.
1: a home user would have to visit a malicious site with - 1a: a very old browser that doesn't have JS jitter built in specifically for this mitigation, 2a: stay on the site long enough for the execution and send back of the data from the script, or 3a: download a malicious program that will exploit the meltdown / spectre vectors... and lets be honest, 99% of those cases would install the application as root if it asked negating the need for any vulnerabilities.
2: even if spectre / meltdown somehow managed to dump the home users root password AND the attacker got an IP address good luck getting to the proper computer when they are behind a NAT. A home router by default won't forward external originating traffic in to ANY computer on the network.
3: even if the attacker DID managed to get a password out of a MD / SP attack, they likely won't know exactly where it is for, and they would have to get stupid lucky to ALSO get a cached username to go along with it. Maybe they get a CC#, they won't know WHO it is for, the CCV, or the billing address - and if they do, you've already been severely compromised already, to the point that the SP / MD attack was useless.
Kind of sounds like you aren't providing any evidence that these attacks are wide spread on every web site and everyone should panic. Bluepillmoron also doesn't even seem to have a clue what spectre and meltdown actually do either. Here's a hint: it isn't "let anyone look around their machine at will".bluepill wrote:A vast majority of home users would never know that something did happen and if it did either their data wasn't totally deleted and just copied or the hacker was just curious and looking around or their machine failed and some dork the local shop just reinstalled their OS and said here ya go it's all better.
^ This.
Absence of evidence != evidence of absence.
fortune -o
Your love life will be... interesting.
How did it know?
The U.S. uses the metric system too, we have tenths, hundredths and thousandths of inches
Your love life will be... interesting.
How did it know?
The U.S. uses the metric system too, we have tenths, hundredths and thousandths of inches
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
Calling me a moron because you don't agree with my opinion is pretty childish.pendrachken wrote: Kind of sounds like you aren't providing any evidence that these attacks are wide spread on every web site and everyone should panic. Bluepillmoron also doesn't even seem to have a clue what spectre and meltdown actually do either. Here's a hint: it isn't "let anyone look around their machine at will".
This is getting ridiculous and a lot of you need to grow up.
You also have an interesting idea on how hackers do things and seem to think they would need to keep using spectre or meltdown over and over again to get back in each time.
NAT is NOT any kind of firewall or device it is a technology that even your modem uses to give out IP addresses you can look that up at the link I posted if you're still confused.
Ports not being forwarded doesn't always protect one from anything either.
Hacking isn't as complicated as you would think it is. Hacking some clowns home network is a joke.
Just because I don't know a lot about Linux as most of you o nthe forum doesn't mean I am stupid and don't know stuff.
Last edited by theblueplll on 2019-08-03 04:44, edited 1 time in total.
- sunrat
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
You don't have to agree with everyone but a little respect goes a long way.theblueplll wrote:Calling me a moron because you don't agree with my opinion is pretty childish.
This is getting ridiculous and a lot of you need to grow up....
Just because I don't know a lot about Linux as most of you o nthe forum doesn't mean I am stupid and don't know stuff.
The last straw: http://forums.debian.net/ucp.php?i=zebr ... heblueplll
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ” Remember to BACKUP!
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ” Remember to BACKUP!
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
Is this guy for real???sunrat wrote:You don't have to agree with everyone but a little respect goes a long way.theblueplll wrote:Calling me a moron because you don't agree with my opinion is pretty childish.
This is getting ridiculous and a lot of you need to grow up....
Just because I don't know a lot about Linux as most of you on the forum doesn't mean I am stupid and don't know stuff.
The last straw: http://forums.debian.net/ucp.php?i=zebr ... heblueplll
I need to give some jerk repsect after they call me a moron for speaking my opinion???
That's not how things work where I come from.
Respect is earned not given for any reason without merit.
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Re: AMD or Intel for debian
I have a few systems running Debian and FreeBSD.
Intel is more stable, especially for Windows systems.
Intel is more stable, especially for Windows systems.