SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random crashes?

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Re: Buste XFCE: How can I find the cause of random crashes?

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-01 21:29

NFT5 wrote:Disabling the Power Manager completely and using only the blank screen screensaver seemed to work.


How can I do that?

Is it like this?
Menu "Settings, Power Manager", then in the "Display" tab, and switch off "Display power management"

Or is other way?
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Re: Buste XFCE: How can I find the cause of random crashes?

Postby NFT5 » 2019-09-01 23:48

In Stretch, that's what I did, but I just fired up the Buster installation to check and there I have removed Gnome Screensaver and left Power Manager turned on to blank after 20 minutes.

In the General tab I set the Power Button to "ask"; Sleep and Hibernate options to "Do Nothing". In the System tab Sleep mode to Suspend; When inactive for "Never". In Security tab set Lock the session to "Never".

This also seems to work.

My system is a desktop, like yours, so there is no real need for power management to save a battery, like on a notebook.
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Re: Buste XFCE: How can I find the cause of random crashes?

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-02 00:06

NFT5 wrote:In Stretch, that's what I did, but I just fired up the Buster installation to check and there I have removed Gnome Screensaver and left Power Manager turned on to blank after 20 minutes.

In the General tab I set the Power Button to "ask"; Sleep and Hibernate options to "Do Nothing". In the System tab Sleep mode to Suspend; When inactive for "Never". In Security tab set Lock the session to "Never".

This also seems to work.

My system is a desktop, like yours, so there is no real need for power management to save a battery, like on a notebook.

Yes, but don't forget I only got this issue after I installed the Nvidia driver.
I have a clone of my system, before the Nvidia driver installation, in a virtual machine, and it works well also.
I have been testing both my physival and virtual systems to see the differences in the last hours.
And I think you didn't remove the screensaver; I guess it doesn't comes installed at all in Buster.
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Re: Buste XFCE: How can I find the cause of random crashes?

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-02 00:07

Short answer

The solution was to install "xscreensaver".
This finally solved this last problem.

=========================================
Long answer

I guess I have mistaken two situations here:
- log out
- lock session

But I may be wrong, so it would be nice to know the opinion of someone more knowledgeable on this matter.

What happened was this:

---------------------------------------------
Before I install the Nvida driver, when I pressed "Crtl + Alt + Delete":
- my session would get locked
- when I moved the mouse or keyboard, the screen would present me with the greeter that appears by default since I installed Debian 10 Buster
- to see a similar greeter, see the first image in this page:
https://linuxdicasesuporte.blogspot.com ... -para.html
- this greeter also would appear after I logged out, using the menu option to log out (restart, logout, shutdown, etc)

---------------------------------------------
After I install the Nvida driver, when I pressed "Crtl + Alt + Delete":
- I would get a black screen with the cursor blinking in the top left corner
- then, if I pressed "Alt + 1" I would see for for a split second similar logs like when the computer performs a shutdown, and at the end, a terminal login prompt.
- if I kept pressing "Alt + 1", I would see the screen quickly changing between the blinking cursor at the top left corner and what I described in the line above
- if I pressed "Alt + 2", I would see a terminal login prompt, without those similar logs
- if I pressed "Alt + 3", I would also see a terminal login prompt, without those similar logs
- to get out of there I would press "Crtl + Alt + Delete" and get a reboot

---------------------------------------------
So, after some hours of googling and testing, I installed the package "xscreensaver".
And now everything works great.
However, now when I press "Crtl + Alt + Delete":
- I no longer get the greeter I used to get before (like the one in the link image above)
- but instead, I get the screensaver greeter like in this link here:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-s-UDjwCcDIk/U ... saver2.png

But I do keep getting the default greeter when I use the menu option to log out.

So now there are 2 settings:
- Menu, "Power Management, Security tab, Light Locker, automatically lock the session, when the screensaver is activated"
- Menu, "Settings, Screensaver, Lock screen after..."

But no matter what I set in those, I never again have gotten another cursor blinking in the top left corner.

In fact, I have played both with the "Screensaver" settings and the "Power Management" settings, and have waited until the screensaver appeared and have also have logged out manually, and every time I would get either the screensaver greeter or the default greeter, and so I just introduced my password and would get to the display manager (my desktop folder) like before all this situation.

=============================================

So, I am finally marking this thread as solved, since I haven't got any crash after I installed the Nvidia driver.

Thank you all that helped me on this:
Segfault
stevepusser
NFT5
ruwolf
sunrat

Regards
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby NFT5 » 2019-09-02 04:13

Thanks for updating us on this. It's good news if you have solved it.

Would you be able to give us another update in a week or so, just to confirm that the problem has definitely been resolved?

One of the things I found, trying to resolve the issue was that it would seem to go away, but then come back a few days later.
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-02 14:59

NFT5 wrote:Thanks for updating us on this. It's good news if you have solved it.

Would you be able to give us another update in a week or so, just to confirm that the problem has definitely been resolved?

One of the things I found, trying to resolve the issue was that it would seem to go away, but then come back a few days later.

Yes, I will update this in a week. You've got my word on this.

And I understand what you feel, I hate when I can't solve a problem definitively and it still appears some time in the future.
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Re: Buste XFCE: How can I find the cause of random crashes?

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-02 15:00

efrpcabo wrote:- then, if I pressed "Alt + 1" I would see for for a split second similar logs like when the computer performs a shutdown, and at the end, a terminal login prompt.
- if I kept pressing "Alt + 1", I would see the screen quickly changing between the blinking cursor at the top left corner and what I described in the line above
- if I pressed "Alt + 2", I would see a terminal login prompt, without those similar logs
- if I pressed "Alt + 3", I would also see a terminal login prompt, without those similar logs

This is incorrect.

The correct is this:
Short answer
- then, if I pressed "Alt + F1" I would see for for a split second similar logs like when the computer performs a shutdown, and at the end, a terminal login prompt.
- if I kept pressing "Alt + F1", I would see the screen quickly changing between the blinking cursor at the top left corner and what I described in the line above
- if I pressed "Alt + F2", I would see a terminal login prompt, without those similar logs
- if I pressed "Alt + F3", I would also see a terminal login prompt, without those similar logs

It is the "tty", I've taken a better look in one of my posterior tests.
Last edited by efrpcabo on 2019-09-02 15:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-02 15:05

efrpcabo wrote:So now there are 2 settings:
- Menu, "Power Management, Security tab, Light Locker, automatically lock the session, when the screensaver is activated"
- Menu, "Settings, Screensaver, Lock screen after..."

But no matter what I set in those, I never again have gotten another cursor blinking in the top left corner.

This is incorrect.

I made more tests, because I got another cursor blinking in the top left corner.

So, I took several hours today to figure this out completely through testing.
And happily I found the cause and solved it.


And here are the results and my records of the tests:


=============================================
01 - Starting point - first test

This were my settings when I started this test "01"

In the other tests below, I just wrote the changes I made after this first test

All my system settings can be found in previous posts in this thread.

XFCE Power Manager can be found in:
Menu, Settings, Settings Manager, Power Manager

XFCE Power Manager, General, Buttons,When power button is pressed: Ask
XFCE Power Manager, General, Buttons,When sleep button is pressed: do nothing
XFCE Power Manager, General, Buttons,When hibernate button is pressed: do nothing
XFCE Power Manager, General, Buttons,When battery button is pressed: do nothing
XFCE Power Manager, General, Appearance, Status notifications: on
XFCE Power Manager, General, Appearance, System tray icon: off

XFCE Power Manager, System, System power saving, System sleep mode: Suspend
XFCE Power Manager, System, System power saving, When inactive for: Never

XFCE Power Manager, Display, Display power management: on
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Blank after: 1m
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Put to sleep after: 2m
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Switch off after: 3m

XFCE Power Manager, Security, Light Locker, Automatically lock the session: When the screensaver is activated
XFCE Power Manager, Security, Light Locker, Delay locking screensaver for: 1s
XFCE Power Manager, Security, Light Locker, Lock screen when system is going to sleep: on

result:
black screen after 01m00s of inactivity in keyboard or mouse
cursor blink at left top at 01m03s
then I rebooted with "Ctrl + Alt + Del"

---------------------------------------------
02 - second test
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Display power management: on
XFCE Power Manager, Security, increased lock delay 01s->30s
nothing for more than 05m00s
then, freeze, some seconds after I opened Gthumb and set it to open a new instance for clicking new files and opened another file
it was the first time I had a freeze with Debian 10 Buster
rebooted display manager with ssh from another machine with "systemctl restart display-manager"
after one or two minutes, I got another freeze
rebooted
and couldn't reproduce this anymore
I don't know what happened, but maybe something related to ssh or "systemctl restart display-manager"
rebooted with ssh from another machine with command "reboot"

---------------------------------------------
03
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Display power management: on
XFCE Power Manager, Security, reduced lock delay 30s->10s
black 01m00s
blink 01m13s
then I rebooted with "Ctrl + Alt + Del"

---------------------------------------------
04
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Display power management: on
XFCE Power Manager, Security, reduced lock delay 10s->01s
black 01m00s
blink 01m03s
then I rebooted with "Ctrl + Alt + Del"

---------------------------------------------
05
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Display power management: off
XFCE Power Manager, Security, lock delay 01s
black 01m00s
blink 01m03s
then I rebooted with "Ctrl + Alt + Del"

---------------------------------------------
06
increased blank after: 1m->2m
black 02m00s
blink 02m03s
then I rebooted with "Ctrl + Alt + Del"

---------------------------------------------
07
XFCE Power Manager, Security, increased lock delay 01s->20s
black 02m00s
02m10s: I touched the keyboard space bar and the desktop folder appeared

---------------------------------------------
08
black 02m00s
blink 02m23s
then I rebooted with "Ctrl + Alt + Del"

---------------------------------------------
09
XFCE Power Manager, Security, automatically lock the session: never
02m30s: I touched the keyboard space bar and the desktop folder appeared

---------------------------------------------
10
XFCE Power Manager, Display, blank after: 2m->3m
XFCE Power Manager, Security, automatically lock the session: when the screensaver is activated
XFCE Power Manager, Security, increased lock delay 01s->20s [note]
note: because it automatically goes to 01s when "automatically lock the session" is set to "never" which happened in test 09
03m00s black
03m10s: I touched the keyboard space bar and the desktop folder appeared

---------------------------------------------
11
black 03m00s
blink 03m23s
then I rebooted with "Ctrl + Alt + Del"

---------------------------------------------
12 - started testing Screensaver

Screensaver can be found in:
Menu, Settings, Settings Manager, Screensaver
Note: needs to be installed, doesn't come by default with Debian 10 Buster
the package name is "xscreensaver"

Screensaver settings:
Mode: Only one screensaver [but I think you can safely set what you like here]
Screensaver, blank after 1m
Screensaver, lock after 1m
01m03s screensaver appeared, I did nothing and waited until 01m20s
01m20s: I touched the keyboard space bar and the desktop folder appeared

---------------------------------------------
13
01m03s screensaver appeared
02m10s: I touched the keyboard space bar and the screensaver greeter appeared, I introduced my password and the desktop appeared

---------------------------------------------
14
01m03s screensaver appeared
01m30s: I touched the keyboard space bar and the desktop folder appeared

---------------------------------------------
15
XFCE Power Manager, Security, automatically lock the session: never
XFCE Power Manager, Display, blank after: 3m->1m
Screensaver, blank after 2m
Screensaver, lock after 1m
01m10s: nothing happened, so I advanced to test 16

---------------------------------------------
16
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Display power management: on
01m10s: nothing happened, so I advanced to test 17

---------------------------------------------
17
02m03s screensaver appeared, I did nothing and waited
02m10s: I touched the keyboard space bar and the desktop folder appeared

---------------------------------------------
18
02m03s screensaver
03m10s: I touched the keyboard space bar and the screensaver greeter appeared, I introduced my password and the desktop appeared

---------------------------------------------
My conclusion:

In Debian 10 Buster, don't allow "Power Manager" to "automatic lock" the screen

To do that, set this setting like this:
XFCE Power Manager, Security, automatically lock the session: never

And instead use the "Screensaver" to configure the automatic screen lock
As I mentioned above, the package xscreensaver has to be installed because it doesn't comes by default in Buster

Screensaver settings:
Screensaver, blank after "x" minutes
Screensaver, lock after "x" minutes
"x" minutes = 10, 30, 300, etc, whatever you want

Example:
Screensaver, blank after 30 minutes
Screensaver, lock after 1 minutes
When you don't touch the mouse or keyboard for 30 minutes, the screensaver will appear, but the screen won't be locked
And 1 minute after it appears, the screen will be locked and when you touch the keyboard it will ask for your password (screensaver greeter)

Success in solving the crashes (logouts).
Success in solving the black screens with blinking cursor.

=============================================
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-03 17:56

Just to give some feedback:
- until now, not a single crash, everything is ok
- looking back now, I think the issue is related to Light Locker which issue in turn is related to the Nvidia driver installation
- fortunatelly the install and configuration of Xscreensaver solved this
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-06 10:22

More feedback:
- everything keeps going just fine
- no more crashes, not even one

One correction to my above reply!
This is wrong:
efrpcabo wrote:To do that, set this setting like this:
XFCE Power Manager, Security, automatically lock the session: never

If you set Power Manager like this, it will prevent Xscreensaver to lock the screen.
I believe Xscreensaver overrides Xscreensaver on this.

Instead, consider this:
To do that, set this setting like this:
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Blank after: [define here a time period bigger than the one set in the "Screensaver"]
XFCE Power Manager, Security, automatically lock the session: "When the screensaver is ativated" [this is only necessary to avoid choosing "Never"]


Example:
Set the lock screen in Power Manager to 60 minutes.
Set the lock screen in Xscreensaver to blank after 55 minutes and lock after 1 minute.
The lock screen will be effective at 56 minutes.
The important thing here is NOT to let the Power Manager lock the screen, by setting the Xscreensaver to lock it first.

Sorry about the extensive posts and somewhat confusion throughout this thread.
The reason for it is because this took me several days to figure out, and many minutes to wait and see if the screensaver would work or a crash would happen.
And as I was doing it, I tried to register everything, so I would lose track on changes, or forget what I did and what I hadn't already done.
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-06 15:46

efrpcabo wrote:More feedback:
- everything keeps going just fine
- no more crashes, not even one

One correction to my above reply!
This is wrong:
efrpcabo wrote:To do that, set this setting like this:
XFCE Power Manager, Security, automatically lock the session: never

If you set Power Manager like this, it will prevent Xscreensaver to lock the screen.
I believe Xscreensaver overrides Xscreensaver on this.

Instead, consider this:
To do that, set this setting like this:
XFCE Power Manager, Display, Blank after: [define here a time period bigger than the one set in the "Screensaver"]
XFCE Power Manager, Security, automatically lock the session: "When the screensaver is ativated" [this is only necessary to avoid choosing "Never"]


Example:
Set the lock screen in Power Manager to 60 minutes.
Set the lock screen in Xscreensaver to blank after 55 minutes and lock after 1 minute.
The lock screen will be effective at 56 minutes.
The important thing here is NOT to let the Power Manager lock the screen, by setting the Xscreensaver to lock it first.

Sorry about the extensive posts and somewhat confusion throughout this thread.
The reason for it is because this took me several days to figure out, and many minutes to wait and see if the screensaver would work or a crash would happen.
And as I was doing it, I tried to register everything, so I would lose track on changes, or forget what I did and what I hadn't already done.


Ok, forget about this.
I wrote this because I went at my computer and the screen wasn't locked, so I thought Xscreensaver hadn't worked and thought the reason was the above.

However, I have just finished tested it again like before (with Power Manager set to Never) and it worked.
To be exact, in fact, it worked with both options in that tab:
- automatically lock the session: "When the screensaver is ativated": on
- automatically lock the session: "When the screensaver is ativated": off

So the reason to the screen not being locked had to be another.
After reading the texts below, in my case maybe the cause was:
- I am running Xscreensaver 5.42 (the present version in Debian 10 Buster as of today) instead of 5.43;
- ou being logged as root with some app (sometimes I use Thunar or Mousepad to edit some system file), but I don't remember that at that time.

I got these ideas from the Xscreensaver documentation, points 6, 7, 8 and 26 here:
https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/faq.html
The point 26 mentions Laptop, but I'm on a Desktop.

So, just in case, now every time I go away from my computer, I just hit Ctr-Alt-Del to start Xscreensaver.
Or maybe I will just wait and see if it becomes unlocked again and try to see the cause for that when it happens.
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-09 07:59

Just to report feedback.

Today morning when I got at my computer I had the blinking cursor in the upper left monitor corner.
I don't know why this happened.

The first time, I thought it was a misconfiguration of mine.

But now I'm sure it isn't that because it has been working flawlessly without crashes in the past two days, and I have been working many hours at the computer despite being weekend.
Before, I had experienced many crashes while I was working. Sometimes 5 or 6 in per hour.

I think I will take out the Nvidia video card, I don't need it anyway because I found out that this computer has two displayports that I had overlooked because I was l looking for DVI.
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby NFT5 » 2019-09-09 09:12

Sorry to hear. Sounded like you thought you had it fixed.

Just a random observation but I'm seeing lots of posts about graphics not working properly in Buster. More than I think I remember seeing with the introductions of Jessie and Stretch. Usually I wait until a new edition of Debian reaches the .5 release, by which time most of these bugs are ironed out. This time I went early because Stretch wasn't playing ball, so kind of expected these little problems.

FWIW my problem seems have been resolved with installation of a new card. Only problem I've had was upsetting grub by formatting the partitions with Jessie on them and then forgetting to run update-grub. Easily fixed but a noob mistake. :?
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Re: SOLVED Buster XFCE: How to find the cause of random cras

Postby efrpcabo » 2019-09-09 10:38

NFT5 wrote:Just a random observation but I'm seeing lots of posts about graphics not working properly in Buster. More than I think I remember seeing with the introductions of Jessie and Stretch. Usually I wait until a new edition of Debian reaches the .5 release, by which time most of these bugs are ironed out.

That's good advice!

NFT5 wrote:FWIW my problem seems have been resolved with installation of a new card.

Yes, I thought about that too, and I would if I really needed a dedicated graphics card.
I just tried to solve this because with this exactly same hardware (computer + dedicated card) everything was working well in Debian 8.

NFT5 wrote:Only problem I've had was upsetting grub by formatting the partitions with Jessie on them and then forgetting to run update-grub. Easily fixed but a noob mistake. :?

Same here. It's not the first time I forgot to run update-grub.
Sometimes we all make noob mistakes.
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