Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

If none of the more specific forums is the right place to ask

Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby elton-w » 2019-09-08 19:00

Machine: HP Spectra 360
OS: Debian Testug {"Default boot partitio]
Windows 10 ["secondary partition"]

Problem: Sinnce yesterday [Saturday, 7 Sepp. 2019]. I'm unablem to get pastt the Boot Manager menu. The machine just hangs, and NO RESPONSE FROMM THE KEYBOARD, so I cn;t even select the Advanced Options or even the Windows manager.!

.....so how do recover my stuff / my machine?


Apparently "Testing" bites very hard. :evil: :evil:

You can see that the BM sits there for more than the default 5 seconds, and the countdown to the login screen does not initiate:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CUWc7FpxZMDMfhjg7
Registered Linux User #193975-85134
elton-w
 
Posts: 49
Joined: 2017-10-15 18:57
Location: Montréal, Québec, CANADA

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-09-09 15:10

Can you boot a live ISO image from a USB stick by setting the priority in the firmware ("BIOS") boot order? The Debian images have a rescue mode in their boot menu.
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 10377
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby elton-w » 2019-09-09 17:51

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Can you boot a live ISO image from a USB stick by setting the priority in the firmware ("BIOS") boot order? The Debian images have a rescue mode in their boot menu.


I cannot boot anything. How can boot the machine without a KEYBOARD?

....I just got off the phone with HP Canada, and it's going to cost me $471.38 for them to recover my stuff and reset the machine. So I'm royally screwed :oops: :evil: .... and I'm learning an expensive lesson NOT to install beta code om my primary machine!!!
Registered Linux User #193975-85134
elton-w
 
Posts: 49
Joined: 2017-10-15 18:57
Location: Montréal, Québec, CANADA

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby Dai_trying » 2019-09-09 20:53

Have you tried getting to your bios settings (before entering any boot manager) to see if your keyboard functions there? according to this SE post you should use Esc+F10 to enter the bios settings (or UEFI settings whichever you have). If that works ok you could try setting your BIOS to boot from USB first and put in a Live-CD (on usb stick) to see if that bbots and if so you might be able to recover your system from there.
Dai_trying
 
Posts: 752
Joined: 2016-01-07 12:25

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby elton-w » 2019-09-10 02:44

Dai_trying wrote:Have you tried getting to your bios settings (before entering any boot manager) to see if your keyboard functions there? according to this SE post you should use Esc+F10 to enter the bios settings (or UEFI settings whichever you have). If that works ok you could try setting your BIOS to boot from USB first and put in a Live-CD (on usb stick) to see if that bbots and if so you might be able to recover your system from there.


I *cannot* get into the BIOS setting. The minute I turn on the power, it loads the Boot Manager screen.

Clearly you do not understand the situation. While i appreciate your input, you are NOT making sense.

Perhaps, if instead of "shooting wildly in the dark", please pay attention :arrow: to the details, so as to properly evaluate and comprehend what's NOT happening

Here's this situation.

1. As soon as you boot the machine,it loads the Boot Manager screen and hangs. / freezes
2. Since I CANNOT boot into the system, the machine is NOT CONNECTED to the Internet.
3. There is NO / ZERO response from _any_ of the keyboard keys.
4. No use attaching an external keyboard, since you cannot load _any_ drivers.

So please tell me how do you load / boot / restart a machine that has:
*no means of input from the operator*.
NO INTERNET CONNECTION
NO functioning KEYBOARD.

....so tell me, if I get a BIOS update or whatever, put it on a USB stick then insert that into the machine,
what do I do THEN? ....wave my arms in the air?
:roll:

{sorry, I don't intend to be rude, but frustration is getting the better of me. :( }
Registered Linux User #193975-85134
elton-w
 
Posts: 49
Joined: 2017-10-15 18:57
Location: Montréal, Québec, CANADA

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby NFT5 » 2019-09-10 03:47

elton-w wrote:what do I do THEN? ....wave my arms in the air?


Settle, petal. People are trying to help. If you maintain that attitude your post will remain unanswered other than criticism of your expectations.

Take a deep breath and consider the problem logically.

At this early stage of the process the keyboard operates at a much lower level, i.e. through the BIOS. If pressing the key combination to enter Setup doesn't work and there is nothing happening on the grub menu then you either have a hardware problem with your keyboard or a problem in the BIOS. The first is much more likely and the fact that grub does not proceed means that it is getting something from the keyboard. Otherwise it would proceed to boot Debian.

Diagnosis:
Stuck key on keyboard.

Remedy:
Press each and every key on the keyboard. Quite often the one that is stuck will be obvious and jiggling it may unstick it.

If that doesn't work then see if you can get hold of another keyboard. Alternately cough up the $471 to HP and get them to fix it.

Keyboard problems with HP notebooks are more common than you think. Have a look on Ebay or Amazon and see how many keyboards are available and how much cheaper they are than genuine.
User avatar
NFT5
 
Posts: 324
Joined: 2014-10-10 11:38
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby elton-w » 2019-09-10 04:35

NFT5 wrote:
elton-w wrote:what do I do THEN? ....wave my arms in the air?


Settle, petal. People are trying to help. If you maintain that attitude your post will remain unanswered other than criticism of your expectations.

Take a deep breath and consider the problem logically.

At this early stage of the process the keyboard operates at a much lower level, i.e. through the BIOS. If pressing the key combination to enter Setup doesn't work and there is nothing happening on the grub menu then you either have a hardware problem with your keyboard or a problem in the BIOS. The first is much more likely and the fact that grub does not proceed means that it is getting something from the keyboard. Otherwise it would proceed to boot Debian.

Diagnosis:
Stuck key on keyboard.

Remedy:
Press each and every key on the keyboard. Quite often the one that is stuck will be obvious and jiggling it may unstick it.

If that doesn't work then see if you can get hold of another keyboard. Alternately cough up the $471 to HP and get them to fix it.

Keyboard problems with HP notebooks are more common than you think. Have a look on Ebay or Amazon and see how many keyboards are available and how much cheaper they are than genuine.


I have a spare full-size standard HP keyboard. I tried it. Nothing, since IMVHO, one has to have / install drivers ...and since I cannot get into the machine to do anything, 'm stuck in a vicious circle.

I understand and know how to get into the BIOS... except that I cannot. Even IF I am pressing a key _WHILE_ holding the power button, the machine goes DIRECTLY to the Boot Manager menu. There is NEVER EVER response from ANY of the 101 keys on the machine. IOW, ALL of the keys on the ENTIRE keyboard do not respond. What that Boot Manager has done is the equivalent of a computer hijack: i cannot get INTO the machine, nor into it's internals ...short of physically taking the machine apart!
Registered Linux User #193975-85134
elton-w
 
Posts: 49
Joined: 2017-10-15 18:57
Location: Montréal, Québec, CANADA

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby Dai_trying » 2019-09-10 06:15

As I am not making sense this will be my last word in this thread, but my leaving comment will be to say when getting to the BIOS menu you cannot just hold down the key combination, it must be pressed at a very specific time in the startup sequence hold Esc and keep pressing F10 repeatedly from the second you press the power button until something happens. If that fails keep waving your hands, say a prayer and hope for a miracle...
Dai_trying
 
Posts: 752
Joined: 2016-01-07 12:25

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby NFT5 » 2019-09-10 08:13

Like I said before, settle down.

elton-w wrote:What that Boot Manager has done is the equivalent of a computer hijack: i cannot get INTO the machine, nor into it's internals ...short of physically taking the machine apart!


This is, of course, complete rubbish - a overreaction caused by your panic, which is not at all justified.

Think about it. You use the keyboard (when it's working) to signal to the machine that you want to enter Setup. No driver(s) necessary because you're not in any operating system; you're working with the BIOS.

So, if the keyboard isn't working to tell the machine that you want to enter Setup, then that has absolutely nothing to do with Debian, or grub. The problem is happening before grub is loaded. Of course, the fact that grub does load and displays on the screen, means that it is working, at least up to that point.

Now, go back to when everything does work the way it should. When the grub menu screen displays you have (usually) 5 seconds to make a choice, before it goes ahead with the default option, which is usually the first entry. Now, if you press any key (except Enter) during that 5 second period the countdown stops. That is what is happening - grub is getting a keystroke signal so is going in to 'wait for your input/decision" mode. As to before grub loads, a key (or keys) is/are sending a constant stream of whatever key it is. That is interrupting any keys that you 're pressing to try to get in to Setup.

Physically the cap may be stuck, although it sounds like you've checked this and ruled it out. Underneath, however, is a plastic membrane that has miniature switches embedded in to it. These can be damaged or they can simply fail. As I said before, not that uncommon with HP notebooks.

The solution is to get a new keyboard. Not that difficult to install if you follow the instructions.
User avatar
NFT5
 
Posts: 324
Joined: 2014-10-10 11:38
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby elton-w » 2019-09-10 13:02

NFT5 wrote:Like I said before, settle down.

elton-w wrote:What that Boot Manager has done is the equivalent of a computer hijack: i cannot get INTO the machine, nor into it's internals ...short of physically taking the machine apart!


This is, of course, complete rubbish - a overreaction caused by your panic, which is not at all justified.

Think about it. You use the keyboard (when it's working) to signal to the machine that you want to enter Setup. No driver(s) necessary because you're not in any operating system; you're working with the BIOS.

So, if the keyboard isn't working to tell the machine that you want to enter Setup, then that has absolutely nothing to do with Debian, or grub. The problem is happening before grub is loaded. Of course, the fact that grub does load and displays on the screen, means that it is working, at least up to that point.

Now, go back to when everything does work the way it should. When the grub menu screen displays you have (usually) 5 seconds to make a choice, before it goes ahead with the default option, which is usually the first entry. Now, if you press any key (except Enter) during that 5 second period the countdown stops. That is what is happening - grub is getting a keystroke signal so is going in to 'wait for your input/decision" mode. As to before grub loads, a key (or keys) is/are sending a constant stream of whatever key it is. That is interrupting any keys that you 're pressing to try to get in to Setup.

Physically the cap may be stuck, although it sounds like you've checked this and ruled it out. Underneath, however, is a plastic membrane that has miniature switches embedded in to it. These can be damaged or they can simply fail. As I said before, not that uncommon with HP notebooks.

The solution is to get a new keyboard. Not that difficult to install if you follow the instructions.


There are NO stocky keys {I touched each one). I am a non-smoker. I never eat or drink anything when at my computer desk. Most importantly, I havenever dropped, hit nor damaged the machine.

Thanks for your input and comments. I shall not bother you further. 8)
Registered Linux User #193975-85134
elton-w
 
Posts: 49
Joined: 2017-10-15 18:57
Location: Montréal, Québec, CANADA

Re: Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby NFT5 » 2019-09-10 17:31

elton-w wrote:Thanks for your input and comments. I shall not bother you further.


Seriously?

You come on here and ask

elton-w wrote:....so how do recover my stuff / my machine?


Get an answer

NFT5 wrote:Stuck key on keyboard.


and then refuse to accept it, denigrating others who have tried to help you and carrying on like a spoilt child along the way.

Enjoy your new paperweight. :evil:
User avatar
NFT5
 
Posts: 324
Joined: 2014-10-10 11:38
Location: Canberra, Australia

[SOLVED] Debian Testing hangs, frozen boot manager

Postby elton-w » 2019-09-11 14:31

IMVHO, at this point, it would be futile to proceed any further.

As can be clearly seen here, the instant the machine is powered on, it shows the Boot Manager menu, NO boot messages whatsoever, no [software] response from the keyboard, regardless whether one is pressing any key or key combinations.

There are NO sticky, or sticking keys.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TwPWec5yjx48nDN36
Notice that the 5 second countdown timer does not initiate either.

My only option now is to return this machine to HP for repair. :(

ADDENDUM / UPDATE: Wednesday, 18 th September, 2019.
Today, I received the repaired unit from HP. They did a system restore, BIOS update, and updated Windows 10 to a higher version.

Therefore, it was a software problem, caused by a Windows update, and conflicting with Debian "Testing" that prevented any boot messages, and caused the device to boot immediately to the
Boot Manager, and freeze. I feel sufficiently chastised and have learnt a most invaluable (and *expensive*!!!) lesson: Never, EVER, install experimental code [such as Debian "Testing", on one's production / main machine. :!: :!:
Registered Linux User #193975-85134
elton-w
 
Posts: 49
Joined: 2017-10-15 18:57
Location: Montréal, Québec, CANADA


Return to General Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

fashionable