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intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

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jringoot
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intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#1 Post by jringoot »

I installed 16 new Dell latitudes (5500, 5400 and 5300) with Debian 10 and all of them appear to have intermittent hangs, just after the grub boot, on "Loading initial ramdisk".
Sometimes it takes 1 or 2 forced shutdowns before they boot properly

It doesn't seem to matter if it is kernel 4.19.0-6-amd64 or 4.19.0-7-amd64 4.19.0-8-amd64
Updating to the latest firmware last week of a couple, still let the problem reoccur intermittently

I tried creating a new ramfs with update-initramfs, but problem still reoccurs intermittently

I also did full hardware diagnostics on 2 machines, nothing found.

I myself have a lenovo laptop of 2 years old with same OS and also a M2 nmve solid state drive and never have this issue

Suggestions welcome, thanks

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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#2 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Are you one of those Windows refugees who calls a failure to load the graphical desktop a "hang"?

Have you tried booting to a plain console by using the systemd.unit=multi-user.target kernel parameter?

And have you installed the CPU µcode?
deadbang

jringoot
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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#3 Post by jringoot »

Meanwhile It appears fixed in Ubuntu when using the oem-kernel from Dell:
There is a package "linux-oem-20.04" and "linux-oem-20.04-edge"
in this oem repository

Code: Select all

"deb http://dell.archive.canonical.com/updates/ focal-oem public"
According to ubuntu it should also work without the oem kernels, but...
Hardware devices that are not supported by linux kernel directly require the use of DKMS packages, but DKMS package has its own downsides. By including the functionalities of such DKMS packages into OEM kernel eliminate the need for using DKMS packages, so that we can provide a much better out-of-the-box user experience to end users, no matter for the pre-installed image or stock Ubuntu.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/OEMKernel

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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#4 Post by Deb-fan »

Was going to suggest updating the initramfs but you did that. Also painfully obviously can't help but thinking do you have the correct contrib and nonfree needed for that hardware. Yes Ubuntu does junk Debian doesn't out-of-box, that's by design and Debian is not a training wheels, hey I'm new to this why doesn't everything just work and do everything for me kind of operating system, also yep ... by design. :)

PS, Ubuntu is also the only (out of dozens I've played with) distro I've ever seen with an installer that suggested I make a donation to Canonical Inc before finishing installing. Don't know if they still do that, only ever played with a Ubuntu install a couple times over the years and the installs tend not to last very long before getting overwritten, by design on my part because I don't want to use Ubuntu or vice versa.

Errrrr ... coming off harsher than intended here. No worries and nothing personal. If Ubuntu works a treat by all means, use Ubuntu.
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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#5 Post by jringoot »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Are you one of those Windows refugees who calls a failure to load the graphical desktop a "hang"?
Thanks for the suggestions, but... I would avoid the wording Are you one of those Windows refugees
that's OS-ism :wink:

No the machine is not interactive, no console is loaded.
I removed splash from the grub kernel commandline to see better what happens and it appears immediatly after loading the kernel
I install systemd-bootchart and added it as a kernel parameter, but when it hangs there is no graph

To activate kernel messaging
I hashed this line in /etc/default/grub

Code: Select all

#GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet"
then

Code: Select all

update-grub
After a couple problem boots
The laptop user could retrieve those problem boots with

Code: Select all

journalctl --list-boots
journalctl -k -b -1
journalctl -k -b -2
....
The last line, or the last line before shutdown sequence is not always the same:
  • Code: Select all

    Apr 30 19:53:10 localhost kernel: Bluetooth: hci0: Failed to send firmware data (-110)
  • Code: Select all

    Apr 30 19:57:08 localhost kernel: input: USB Video device: USB Camera as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/usb1/1-2/1-2.4/1-2.4:1.0/input/input41
    
  • Code: Select all

    Apr 30 19:49:29 localhost kernel: QNX4 filesystem 0.2.3 registered.
    
Also to do with the user/customer that tried troubleshooting himself by unplugging keyboard and other devices in different boots, to see if that may be the cause.
And after 4 times becoming more impatient and shutting it down faste





BTW: 'Loading initial ramdisk ...' is a message that can be found in

Code: Select all

/boot/grub/grub.cfg
I guess something goes wrong when the kernel hands over control to systemd


Head_on_a_Stick wrote: Have you tried booting to a plain console by using the systemd.unit=multi-user.target kernel parameter?
The problem is intermittent, I suspect a race condition occurs, possibly early at loading systemd
I have installed on a couple laptops a systemd from the backports repository... it appeared far more stable... no more hang occured.
Until it got kernel updates, those couldn't be done because they were not compatible with the backported systemd.


Head_on_a_Stick wrote: And have you installed the CPU µcode?
You have me there. I didn't do that.

All firmware updates were installed using fwupdmgr
Wouldn't that be sufficient?

I will try the apt-get install intel-microcode
on one of those debian installed latitudes and see if it improves.

Thank you Head_on_a_Stick

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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#6 Post by Deb-fan »

Rant follows, I think it's funny but if you're easily offended by facts and reality ... turn away NOW ! :D

Lol ah screw it PS2, I haven't done a buntu bash in a long time, I feel entitled a bit.

Also there's zero Ubuntu does which Debian can't in the hands of a competent nixer and I'd say better. People using Ubuntu (or again vice versa) rely on the decisions and judgement of the people @ Canonical Inc to a greater extent. At least unless they want to do a crapton of changes themselves and that requires knowledge, experience, time and skill. In which case why not just install Debian proper in the first place, it'd be better and easier. While Canonical Inc for various reasons has opted to being binary incompatible with Debian, main one imo is that they don't want to share their toys with Debian or other Debian based distro's.

If someone is a Youtube fan, which I am and a gnu/nix fan, they may find themselves searching for and watching gnu/Linux related content on da mighty YT. Which I tend to do sometimes and remember a convention related to kernel development where the speaker actually pointed out the lack of contributions by Canonical Inc and asked the Ubuntu/Canonical people in attendance to raise their hands, was funny watching the folks from Canonical Inc shrink down in their chairs and go all red faced. :D
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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#7 Post by jringoot »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: And have you installed the CPU µcode?
I just let the user verify, the intel microcode was installed.

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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#8 Post by sunrat »

Install inxi and post

Code: Select all

inxi -Fx
This will show hardware details; could be your hardware is just too new for Debian 10.
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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#9 Post by jringoot »

Deb-fan wrote:Rant follows, I think it's funny but if you're easily offended by facts and reality ... turn away NOW ! :D
I am not offended here, but I think it is just useless to address people as belonging to a group identity to make a point.
It just creates useless bariers and have never seen it to help in a conversation.

I have more than hunderd end user computers that run quite fine, and stable with Debian 10.

I witnessed this problem only with the recent dell laptops. And Dell has a deal with Ubuntu, even those shipped with 18.04 if you update them you need to have that oem-kernel or you can run into issues.
and I received a batch of 15 of those to have linux installed, in a PO on which I had no influence, so I have to deal with it.

And it is true: The feedback from Ubuntu to debian is not great.

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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#10 Post by jringoot »

sunrat wrote:Install inxi and post

Code: Select all

inxi -Fx
This will show hardware details; could be your hardware is just too new for Debian 10.
Interesting command thanks.

It is not that recent problem, it started with all dell latitudes (5500, 5400, 5510) we received from september 2019 onwards.

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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#11 Post by sunrat »

jringoot wrote:
sunrat wrote:Install inxi and post

Code: Select all

inxi -Fx
This will show hardware details; could be your hardware is just too new for Debian 10.
Interesting command thanks.

It is not that recent problem, it started with all dell latitudes (5500, 5400, 5510) we received from september 2019 onwards.
That was after Debian 10 was released. A new kernel from backports and possibly firmware and other packages from there may help. Or wait for Debian 11 to be released in a few months (or install Testing now which will eventually become Debian 11).
Sure inxi is an interesting command; would be more useful if you post its output.
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Re: intermittent "Loading initial ramdisk" hang

#12 Post by Deb-fan »

As others and myself have already said think it's simply a matter of installing the correct software pkgs. You've never heard of cpu microcode or inxi ? Sounds like a real oddball situation, doesn't make technical nor business sense to me but Ubuntu boasts a huge userbase and has done deals with Dell before. Still seriously doubting Dell would do anything hardcore exclusive with Canonical Inc.

edit: It'd be left up to Canonical Inc and yeppers I do believe they develop some better drivers-etc for certain systems inhouse and don't share but that's business and while think it's crappy, can kind of understand too. Also that's speculation I don't care enough about whatever Canonical does to bother looking at them much. Though it's not without a factual basis either, meaning have come across things which suggest it happens. Am pretty dang sure as far as an OEM like Dell is concerned a corp like Canonical is a flea.

I'm a big fan of Dell (some of their stuff anyway) and if found substance to something like that I'd be majorly pissed at them. Not that they'd lose any sleep about some random guy being pissed at them I guess. :D

Am sure plenty of geeks and nixers would also. Some of those folks no doubt making some big purchasing decisions in what brands get bought. Late 2019 onwards yeppers could be newish for current Debian stable but no shortage of nixers running Debian on newish hardware either, which again ... Leads me to believe missing the right pkgs, incorrect configuration is the issue.

Pointless 2 cents, might also contact Dell support, newish systems should mean some amount of support and at least ask them what's going on and express displeasure about things if substantiated. Anyway good luck when it comes to Nix there's generally always more than one solution. Just a matter of poking, prodding and googling until someone finds one they like.
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