Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network).

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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-06-20 01:57

millusions wrote:please help me understand when you say systemd is responsible for power-off /hibernation and sleep, isn't that system wide? when i run 'sudo systemctl mask sleep.target suspend.target hibernate.target hybrid-sleep.target' as suggested by Head_on_a_Stick, which is gold because i can ssh that, but lxde power control panel does not reflect this change. How is that possible?

Overview of logind and inhibit locks:
https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind/
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/inhibit/

All the Desktop Environment components and all the the applications are running on top of systemd (main process, pid1), and systemd runs on top of the kernel.
Systemd process performs the actual switching between power states, and the DE Power Management applications are more or less just a GUI front-ends to systemd.
By masking the power states at the systemd level, You're completely bypassing the DE/GUI functionalities -> i.e. the DE has no chances to know about this.
millusions wrote:if OMV is not using this functionality then what is it using? it has some wake on lan and sleep modules
I'm not using OMV - but if it has some modules for WOL and sleep state handling, then probably they are not enabled by default / not designed to work with systemd.
I would say that not many applications today are using the inibit locks - systemd is still quite "new".
AFAIN, currently only Gnome and KDE have put some efforts in supporting this functionality.
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby millusions » 2020-06-20 09:28

thank you!!
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby CwF » 2020-06-20 12:44

millusions wrote:do you know how many watts your dual xeons are pulling?

Why yes, I've measured many. The penny per hour idle is real, ~100w. Specifics matter, that's dual 95w with no HD's, 3 fans, and 3 amd sky gpu's. Much less than the monitors it drives, much much less than three decent 'efficient' computers. Worse examples are up to 170w, best down to 70's. HD's and GPU's that don't idle well will kill it.
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby millusions » 2020-06-21 03:36

hey,

when you say much less i think you're being optmistic :)

it might be one reason to get something more recent,
i3 6100 4GB DDR4, 3 x 3TB and 1 x SSD, one 20CM fan +1 cpu fan = draws 38 watts as im typing this and have wget running. 46 watts at 100% cpu usage.
i5 6500T with 4 hard disks, 3 fans + cpu fan, GT730 graphics, 16GB DDR4 = 43 watt idle , 55 watts at 100% cpu usage.
also have i5 6500 not T, the T thing is a joke, waste of time.

and i also measured my new Dell U2719 ultrasharp depending on brightness:
brightness 13% - 15 watts
brightness 50% - 24 watts
brightness 100% - 36 watts

so there you go. i think graphics cards suck the most and the question is do we need it? have a machine with a GTX1080 and that thing goes over 300Watts gaming.

i like Mac Pros, dual Xeons uses 20 watts when sleeping on those machines :)
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby CwF » 2020-06-21 05:26

millusions wrote: 20 watts when sleeping

They never sleep, they do do things 24/7. Sometimes, not much, idling, but never sleeping.
Let's double check the meaning of idle. That's 3 150w GPU's driving 3 40's, 5-10 Full OS VM's running. I compare that machine to 3 well equipped workstations doing nothing, not my 78W max E3 quad or the 48W max dual. The bigger machine is much much more capable than 3-5 of those examples. Recording a few channels of tv listening to the radio or watching something, and a few browsing, yields 120-160w averages. An idled gpu is likely 15w+ haven't seen much better, mostly much worse. So stick THREE gpu's much stronger than a GT730, add an exponent to your ram, add 7 SSD's and measure again. I'd say it would match your 6300T in three VM's at once, easily. You would be hard pressed to see 100% cpu.
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby millusions » 2020-06-21 06:03

bit tipsy now.

but that's my point, you can knock a GT730 but linux happily does 4k via HDMI with a GT710 or GT730,
the fact that you have 3 150Watt GPUs with very little to actually explain why.

ive been there myself, every machine had to have a K version of i7 and 32GB of RAM.
i'ts pointless.

don't think i havent researched this,
R9 270x adds 25Watts at idle, which is absolutely fine but you have to consider the reason, because at the end of the day it adds no value for that 25watts - absolutely zero.


so when you say stick a GPU stronger than a GT730 and 7 SSDs i just ask, but why? it's not about what the machine is capable of, it's about what it's designed to do ;)

its awesome that you have 3 150 watt graphics processors, without a real reason why, just for a pissing contest.

have a good day!
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby CwF » 2020-06-21 06:14

millusions wrote: without a real reason why

To do the job of 3 computers, that's why. You can have your own keyboard and trackball if you'd like, because that's what it's for. So when a screen is blank, it cost the wasted 15w. You come, sit, fire up your thing and it doesn't disturb me, the tivo, or anything as if it were another computer all together. I'm sure whatever you do will run close enough to full speed.
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby millusions » 2020-06-21 06:35

yea. but when you say 'im sure'
i dont think you are sure :)
at all P
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby CwF » 2020-06-24 13:38

millusions wrote: 'im sure'

I found my older notes;
single video and one ssd thesystem would idle on a debian9 xfce desktop at .54A @ 123.4V
loaded under Queens it would pull 1.77A. So 67w - 220w.
A VM like a file server is hard to measure, a few watts certainly within the noise...
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby millusions » 2020-06-25 06:59

cool.

grab a KillaWatt , i paid like $15 on Ebay shipped. to measure power draw.

just saying, i used to love old Mac Pros
I put a couple of X5690 in it, pretty good performance, geekbench for single x5690 is almost like Devil's Canyon 4790K
pretty cheap to do. very impressive performance considering the age of these CPUs.

but then when you look into power usage, it's just not worth it.
i think i3 9100 these days will do the same thing at half the power

tipsy again, and i could be wrong, but these days more into efficiency than big balls,
i do have a GTX770 and R9 270x on the shelf, but given the power draw these cards offer nothing to me over a GT710
Watts is what your looking for, a killowatt = 1000 Watts is 30 cents in Australia, im pretty sure im under that with about 7 machines here :) (could be more, i'll count again when i sober up).
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby CwF » 2020-06-25 14:25

millusions wrote:Watts is what your looking for, a killowatt = 1000 Watts is 30 cents in Australia

Well no wonder. I pay .08, .125 kw/h peak. You are into solar territory paying back!

Measure voltage, measure amps, do the math and that does give you watts. No killawatt gadget needed. Formerly I dealt with unreliable power, slow switches to a CNG genset, battery banks on inverters - there goes 20% right there...

I still have an XP machine with dual X5687's, run them de-hyper-threaded and as dual dual cores and they hold clock while passively cooled. It still sucks power. But it's rarely booted up. The handful of 5500/5600 series are all gone now, I kept the one.

Originally I set out to replace 8 with one, that's where I'm at. It is more efficient to run one super machine than a handful of boxes once a few things run all the time. Multi-seat happens less and less, but it's there. House and shop power control is vm'ified, as is a continuous tivo from a very large antenna, a few hours of 'full transponder' in RAM, along with a few things undisclosed. Of course the ability to run test and experiments in an assisted vm is useful.

I picked the video cards after many iterations. First single slot with real power, and a proper idle. Still have a nvidia box also, they suck power doing nothing. These AMD's idle well, work on all OS's including XP since I still have serial/usb equipment that need it, and older CAD/CAM stuff. They are still not fully realized under debian, but way better than my nvidia's which are also under performing in Debian. Debian doesn't do MST for example while the 2 decade old XP does, though I haven't checked it under debian lately.

The single computer also powers all the extras, no wall warts. I have a breakout harness with all the plugs for the 2 wifi routers and the net switch (yes, a switch used on a single computer), the TV/Radio signal amps, and the discrete cell data thing. That's from an old lesson about heat dissipation and power supplies, they don't do well at high altitude.

Of course somebody will say the complexity isn't worth it and that little fruit pie computers would be simpler and more reliable. I thought that was a reasonable thought 4 years ago. My current up time of 34+ weeks suggest otherwise. And the file server segment never falls asleep!

My Truck can tell you power use, it can delegate from ~0 to 38A for it's 5 heaters, chargers, server, SDR mesh, cameras, and hotspot. It can also run the house in an emergency outage with 3000W+ AC at 1200rpm. No, not factory. All made from components I could order from Hong Kong for cheaper than me mailing them to you. Those days might be gone. Used to receive a few packages a week, that's dried up. So an inductive coil to make a killawat was a buck shipped, no more...I should have stocked up, usually do.
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby millusions » 2020-06-27 07:35

that's why i run hackintoshes for any network services.

because other operating systems seem to have a pretty retarded view on WOL


i love Debian, have some really good memories with it, but Mac OSX is the best bsd distro

my MacOSX Mojave 10.14.6 server wakes up when i access it in any way at all, other times the sleep light blinks. no magic packet bullshit needed.
tried to get Debian to do it but giving up.
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-06-27 09:53

millusions wrote:my MacOSX Mojave 10.14.6 server wakes up when i access it in any way at all, other times the sleep light blinks. no magic packet bullshit needed.

Do You know how Your hackintosh wakes up on LAN activity?
There's a plenty of possibilities:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wake-on-LAN
The Wake-on values define what activity triggers wake up: d (disabled), p (PHY activity), u (unicast activity), m (multicast activity), b (broadcast activity), a (ARP activity), and g (magic packet activity).
I'm guessing that OSX wakes up on PHY and/or broadcast activity - which is fine for homebrew NAS, as long it is not accessible from the outside world. Otherwise such default behaviour is completely wrong - I'm sure that no one wants to wake up the NAS on external port scanning (f.e.)

My point is, again, that there's no size which fits them all ...

Besides, again, Debian is an Universal system - don't expect that universal system will be shipped with pre-configured WOL - this functionality is extremely rarely used and there's no good default wakeup method.

Regards
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby millusions » 2020-06-27 10:50

I dont know what youre guessing but it just works on OSX

with PHY debian wont sleep, id look into this some more but it's working for me, so dont need to.

yes. i understand Debian is a toolbox but the definition of this is kinda vauge.
there is some expectations of a computer to do some basic tasks, like sleep and wake on demand, but then you dissect the definition of basic, as in, we're booting with a working fstab = you do the rest.

when you highlight UNIVERSAL, what the fk do you exactly mean by that?

god bless those Apple nerds so dont have to fiddle with "d (disabled), p (PHY activity), u (unicast activity), m (multicast activity), b (broadcast activity), a (ARP activity), and g (magic packet activity)."
to get a computer do what it's supposed to.

i'll never understand why such basic functions are 'optional' because we're a UNIVERSAL OS lol


feel free to ingore me. bit drunk again :)
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Re: Debian 10 falls asleep while coping files to it (network

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-06-27 11:47

millusions wrote:i'll never understand why such basic functions are 'optional' because we're a UNIVERSAL OS lol

feel free to ingore me. bit drunk again :)

I think that I've already explained "why"...

Anyway, You have Your point of view, I have My point of view - everyone has His point of view, so just let's agree to disagree ...

Cheers! :mrgreen:
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