linux tearing in the browser

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linux tearing in the browser

Postby MagicPoulp » 2020-07-13 06:34

I have tearing, especially in the browser. I had this issues on fresh installations on many different computers and debian distribustions (the clearest example is a Css transition animation in the browser for a translation). After investigating, problems lie around the nouveau driver, and the X server.

I use an unaltered installation of debian 10 with nouveau, and the browser is firefox.

I actually tried the tearing CSS translation example on Gnome and KDE. And the issue is still present even thought wayland is active by default. Maybe a fallback to X is used.

Here is the example to try. Please mark if you see tearing and if you do not see tearing.
Just trigger the animation
https://www.w3schools.com/howto/tryit.a ... js_sidenav
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby Dai_trying » 2020-07-13 07:17

Your search-fu is poor, I searched this a few days ago and found this near the top of my results, I tried the xfce option and it seems to have fixed it, there are different options for different DE's and YMMV, but it might help.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby MagicPoulp » 2020-07-13 09:51

Hi,

I searched but it is very confusing in the results.

Thanks for the link. It worked for me. I did the tweak for XFCE and it worked. Now the tearing stopped for that example of a transition.

However, I am using enlightenment most of the time. I need a tweak for the enlightenment desktop and I cannot find one. A big difference lies in the fact that enlightenment has its own compositor. So one would rather configure it instead of replacing it. I tried a vsync option but it did nothing.


Any idea why debian does not propose enlightenment in the debian installer? It used to be in the list.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby MagicPoulp » 2020-07-13 12:19

I asked on IRC, and other people do not see tearing using a more recent enlightenment.

Sadly the debian package is too old.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby Dai_trying » 2020-07-13 12:55

you might want to try backporting a newer version from testing/sid although I don't know what issues may arise from this as i try to stick to stable as much as possible (on my main machines) but I don't use enlightenment at all so cannot advise further on that.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-07-13 12:55

Maybe it is because I am not enlightened, but in all the years I have used Linux, and then when I started with Debian 6, I have never seen or had any problem with this "screen tearing", all though I have seen screen shots showing it.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-07-13 15:49

MagicPoulp wrote:the issue is still present even thought wayland is active by default. Maybe a fallback to X is used

The current firefox-esr version in buster (68.10) does indeed use XWayland, check the "Window Protocol" section on the about:support page for confirmation.

I'm now using v78.0 of firefox-esr in Alpine Linux and that runs in pure Wayland automatically, hopefully Debian will port that release to stable soon. I do find that wlroots offers a significantly better experience in respect of tearing than GNOME's mutter compositor but that won't be available in Debian until the next stable release.

But really this all your own fault for giving money to those NVIDIA bastards — both the Intel and AMD open source drivers have TearFree options but only the proprietary NVIDIA blob offers a solution for their cards (the FullForceCompositionPipeline).

I suppose you could try setting the SwapLimit option in nouveau(4) to "2" (triple buffering) but that's only possible in X.

MagicPoulp wrote:Here is the example to try. Please mark if you see tearing and if you do not see tearing.
Just trigger the animation
https://www.w3schools.com/howto/tryit.a ... js_sidenav

The "Run" button on that page does nothing for me but https://hooktube.com/watch?v=MfL_JkcEFbE is perfectly smooth on my AMD Vega 8 under sway/wlroots. It looks *awful* under Windows 10 though, amusingly.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby pylkko » 2020-07-13 20:13

Interested in knowing if you have such experience with the latest GNOME which has the performance bug fixes. I believe it is backported to 3.34. From what I saw, the optimizations by Canonical's Daniel van Vugt were claimed to like even double performance in some things (forgot the details).
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby MagicPoulp » 2020-07-14 04:03

OK thanks. I completely forgot about the specificity of firefox-esr. But debian has firefox-esr and not firefox vanilla latest for some reason. And I like to stick with the raw stuff. The tearing is acceptable.

On an intel computer without AMD or NVIDIA graphics card:
the tearing can disappear on XFCE with the compton replacement.

ON another computer with Intel and NVIDIA GPU:
replacing compton on XFCE changes nothing.
Here they mention more fixes for NVIDIA but I do not have time for this and I don't trust NVIDIA hacks.
https://www.maketecheasier.com/get-rid- ... ing-linux/

If I don't like Gnome it is more a matter of taste and user friendlyness. I hate sounds when I click stuff for example. I really tried but I hated it too much. I also disliked the Gnome stuff "taking over" debian with many layers (systemd).
And I hate KDE because of QT and C++. For me, my desktop must be written in C and not in "C--".

Concerning enlightenment, I do not have time to build it for wayland. BUt I saw on IRC the community and the development is quite active. I saw the source and it looked nice.
Enlightenemnt and EFL are written in C.

No one answered but I am asking again. Why did enlightenment disappear from the debian installer?
I think it may be related to the debian package being quite old, like 2 years old so it did not seem relevant.

https://www.enlightenment.org/about-efl.md
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby stevepusser » 2020-07-14 04:20

I recently backported enlightenment-0.24.1 from Debian Experimental on a Buster base for MX 19, and it runs nicely in my tests without tearing, but I'm using the Intel driver with tearfree anyway. Maybe I'll update my OBS repo for it--I haven't done anything in it for a couple years.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby MagicPoulp » 2020-07-14 06:45

Having a newer enlightenment can be useful to other people. Even without special tweaks for Intel drivers. On IRC people said that have no tearing just by having a newer enlightenment a little of luck with the hardware.

Currently, there are only 2 desktop environments in C that have wayland support in active development: Gnome, and Enlightenment (also called EFL)
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland

Here is the Santa clause list:
- wayland enabled
- latest enlightenment
- must be present on the debian-backports repository
https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingFormalB ... _as_needed

On IRC for enlightenment, people there were using other than debian.

And why does HeadOnAStick uses Alpine and not debian?
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-07-14 19:50

MagicPoulp wrote:why does HeadOnAStick uses Alpine and not debian?

I love the minimalism.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby MagicPoulp » 2020-07-15 06:31

THen why not run the distribution called "linux from scratch"?
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby stevepusser » 2020-07-16 05:26

You're not going to get Enlightenment (aka e17; EFL are the e foundation libraries that must be built before you do e17) in the official buster-backports until:

It makes its way from Experimental to Debian testing.
Someone actually backports it there--they've never done so in the past, so you'll have to agitate for that.
It's probably easier just to do your own backports; certainly quicker than waiting forever for Debian.
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Re: linux tearing in the browser

Postby MagicPoulp » 2020-07-16 07:58

What rule restricts backports to the experimental repository?

By the way, there is no e17 enlightenment 0.24 in experimental:
https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw ... ightenment

If I have time I would try making my own backport.

How do they ensure that formal backports do not contain malware? Maybe that is part of the answer to the first question.
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