How to make frugal install?

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How to make frugal install?

Postby cayoenrique » 2020-08-13 07:25

Who I am?
For the last year I been a DebianDog user. It is just a Full Debian installation but it is done as a Frugal Installation. Search web for "debiandog.github.io” if you need more info.

The original forum has ceases to operate. And the new forum is setting new rules that in my opinion disregards the users need in favor of admins new rules. This is the same reason as why I moved away from Microsoft/Windows or Google assets. I decided is time for me to move away of that distro.

What I like to be my new Linux OS.
As I said I been using Debian for the last year. And I love it. So I wonder if I can find here the Official Debian a similar Frugal Installation method or at least the best similar option.

What I have found so far?
Debian live with persistence storage
Install Debian so you can boot a full install read only mode

Can you guys help me identify any other available method that allow Debian os to run where its File System is Read ONLY but have persistence storage and changes?

Thanks in advance.
Enrique
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby geoffkaniuk » 2020-08-14 16:37

I was just curious, as this seems to be a flavour of Puppy Linux. Looking around, the other distro that comes up is Raspian - might be worth a look. The link you gave seems pretty comprehensive?
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-08-14 17:13

I am not sure what you want or mean "frugal" installation.You can see what is available at:
https://www.debian.org/distrib/ Decide which image suites you needs, and install it. This https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/choosing.en.html may be of help in deciding which is best for you.
For the last year I been a DebianDog user. It is just a Full Debian installation but it is done as a Frugal Installation. Search web for "debiandog.github.io” if you need more info.

You are mistaken, this is NOT a Full Debian, it is another distro, we really are not interested in other distros here.
I am sorry about your other problems , on other forums, etc. But really that has nothing to do with Debian, so it is of no interest.
There are various methods to "available method that allow Debian os to run where its File System is Read ONLY but have persistence storage and changes?"
A search engine can help you with that, one way that shows in a search;
https://wiki.debian.org/ReadonlyRoot
There are many others, like:
https://www.onlogic.com/company/io-hub/how-to-build-a-read-only-linux-system/
perhaps try a search and read some of them.
File System is Read ONLY but have persistence storage and changes?

You should consider some logic here, If a file system is set to be "read only", changes can not be made to it. You can also simply use the 'chmod' command, see 'man chmod', and set permissions for specific files and directories, set the permissions as "read only".
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby cayoenrique » 2020-08-14 21:23

@geoffkaniuk
Post Objective: I am trying to find out what options this forum or any other official Debian resource may have to offer to me. I am not trying to promote or diminish any other Distro out there. And I know there are other distros that may have what I am looking. But if my last year use of Debian was so nice; Why not try it right from the source?

@cuckooflew
Do you realize this is my 1rst & 2nd post in this forum? From your post I have a felling you are asking me to leave the forum already! What I did so bad to earn that? I know I should not had posted "Who I am?” that seems to be the source of confusion.

@ALL others. I had search the forum and I have not found a section or post dealing with “Debian Live”, "union mount for Linux file systems” or AUFS. If you know a link to such information I will really appreciate. PLEASE focus on any help you can provide. Maybe there is none, and that is OK.

Please note I did not come to convince you. Please follow your normal Debian Installation. That does not mean you can neglect there others way to have Debian running.
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby cayoenrique » 2020-08-14 21:27

What is a Frugal Install?
In a Frugal installation the system files (Linux directory structure) are compressed into a couple of file (technically filesystems within a file).
In other words, The Linux system files are stored in just couple of files in a directory, rather than spread out over a drive partition.
The exception is the Kernel and initrd that mostly remain original as it is ususaly required by the bootloader. For User storage a SaveFile will keep track of all changes (Persitance User Storage).

In more technical terms it uses a layered file system (AUFS). The base Linux system files are compressed in a squashfs. The SaveFile contains an image of a Linux partition.

However they appear to the user in the terminal and File Manager as the Linux RootFS which normally expanded over a whole partition.

This method allows the whole OS to be loaded into RAM memory. So it can run fast. Additionally, you can have multiple installations on one partition or directories.

As the file system is in read mode recovery from catastrophic failure can be done in minutes. Simplest way to explain, take Android or Iphone. With a simple command you can reset the phone to factory defaults. Similar concept.

Last @cuckooflew the way you pack your Debian does not mean you do not have a FULL Debian distro. For example if you use a Debian Image and boot in virtualization mode such as qemu or KVM. That means to you it is not Real Debian? Same happen when we use AUFS. So If I follow your logic then Debian Live is not Real Debian as it uses union mount and all its system files are not store in a partition but instead in filesystem.squashfs and the changes are store in Persitance. Debian Live is in fact a basic Frugal Install.

@ALL again if you know a link with similar info please help me, thanks in advance.
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby geoffkaniuk » 2020-08-14 21:38

I think a good entry point is https://www.debian.org/distrib/. See the link "Try Debian live before installing" https://www.debian.org/CD/live/. Opens out into a lot of information.
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-08-14 22:45

Well, welcome to the forum, and , what I did say was related to this:
Postby cayoenrique » 2020-08-13 07:25
Who I am?
For the last year I been a DebianDog user. It is just a Full Debian installation but it is done as a Frugal Installation. Search web for "debiandog.github.io” if you need more info.

DebianDog user. It is just a Full Debian installation

Debian Dog, is NOT Debian, it is another distro, saying it is Debian, is wrong, it might be based on Debian, but there is no "Debiandog" in the official Debian mirrors.

Postby cayoenrique » Last @cuckooflew the way you pack your Debian does not mean you do not have a FULL Debian distro. For example if you use a Debian Image and boot in virtualization mode such as qemu or KVM. That means to you it is not Real Debian? Same happen when we use AUFS. So If I follow your logic then Debian Live is not Real Debian as it uses union mount and all its system files are not store in a partition but instead in filesystem.squashfs and the changes are store in Persitance. Debian Live is in fact a basic Frugal Instal

Wrong, I never said Debian Live is not Debian, It is, and it is available in the Debian mirrors, You can get it here : https://www.debian.org/CD/live/
You can use that image on a VM if that is what you want it is still Debian,
For installing Debian, there are these :https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/
A. Installation Howto
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby cayoenrique » 2020-08-15 06:45

cuckooflew & geoffkaniuk thanks for your time and effort.

I had done my assignment, I had search the forum, read the suggested readings and look at those Debian links. But PLEASE ignore my 1rst five sentences, the Who I am?. Like I already said:

@ALL others. I had search the forum and I have not found a section or post dealing with “Debian Live”, "union mount for Linux file systems” or AUFS. If you know a link to such information I will really appreciate. PLEASE focus on any help you can provide. Maybe there is none, and that is OK.

If any one else like to help I bee watching this thread. One more time thanks.
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby anticapitalista » 2020-08-15 08:06

antiX might be what you want. Not Debian, but it is based on it (buster) and has an easy frugal install.
antiX with runit - lean and mean.
https://antixlinux.com
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby cayoenrique » 2020-08-16 03:13

anticapitalista

1rst it is funny anticapitalista suggesting antiX...

I know! I will give you my word I will download it and try it some time in near future. I do like to test and compare.

But I did say:
And I know there are other distros that may have what I am looking. But if my last year use of Debian was so nice; Why not try it right from the source?

As I said I want to see if I can get similar results with just Debian. Well to be honest I know I can, may take some time but I should get it working.

Thanks for suggestion, appreciated.
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby anticapitalista » 2020-08-16 07:21

cayoenrique wrote:anticapitalista

1rst it is funny anticapitalista suggesting antiX...


Enrique


Yeah, it was a bit of a shameless plug :D

Good luck in getting Debian to run frugally.
antiX with runit - lean and mean.
https://antixlinux.com
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-08-16 13:23

anticapitalista wrote:Good luck in getting Debian to run frugally.

How do antiX manage that? Is it simple to configure?
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby anticapitalista » 2020-08-16 15:50

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
anticapitalista wrote:Good luck in getting Debian to run frugally.

How do antiX manage that? Is it simple to configure?


It is part of the antiX live system that we have developed since 2009.

https://antixlinux.com/the-most-extensi ... he-planet/

I don't know if Debian live has the feature or not since I haven't tried it.

The antiX live stuff is available from gitlab.

https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/Live-ini ... aster/init might give you some idea about our live init set up.
antiX with runit - lean and mean.
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-08-16 17:04

I think the netinstall https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ and just install the base, with no DE, etc. Only ssh server , if wanted, is about as "frugal" (strange term in my opinion) as you can get, or the installer, https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
The , there is also this: https://github.com/Head-on-a-Stick/newer-buster
It boots, and works, one could use it as a base on a usb stick, and build on it , and add what they want...but , also it is not a "official Debian", option H_O_A_S provides it, I have tried it and used it as my boot media on a qemu VM,..
For a full Debian install, but minimal, I use the netinstall image. If want a Live USB device, I install the Debian base to a usb stick, I then have something that will boot a PC, and can be used as system, and can be written to, packages added, etc... But if one wanted to set it as read only, they could do that. It is not of much use when it is read only though, One way to go , that I have tried, Use 'dd' command, to copy a live CD to the usb device, then resize the partition in order to creat more space, make a 2nd partition, and use it as a storage partition,... the 1st partition where the live system, and the boot file are, is read only, the second partition is read write, and can be mounted automatically or manually, depending on what one wants. I don't of any , pre-made images that do exactly what I want, that is why I use what is available, eg: Debian netinstall, or a Debian live image, I moved away from the Debian Live images, because they are large and include DE s that I don't want, or need, those just take up space. After all said and done,...well nothing more to say, because it would be another OS and another topic.
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Re: How to make frugal install?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-08-16 18:17

anticapitalista wrote:The antiX live stuff is available from gitlab.

https://gitlab.com/antiX-Linux/Live-ini ... aster/init might give you some idea about our live init set up.

Thanks!
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