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Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Hallo ALL!
I have read many things about apt vs aptitude vs synaptic. In brief, synaptic is just a nice Gnome front-end for apt. But aptitude is yet another story. It seems to handle dependencies better. On the other hand, apt-lovers deny that. And the thing is going round-round: arguments are sparkling on both sides. (Can post some links...)
Now, I have read that if you are using Debian testing, which would be my case, then aptitude has real advantage in better handling dependencies over a long period of time. Argument was interesting: that for Ubuntu, it does not matter, since cycles are 6-months, but for long period, mess will be, eventually, large enough to cause problems.
Thus, please, enlighten me what would be the safest way and why!?
Best,
PM
I have read many things about apt vs aptitude vs synaptic. In brief, synaptic is just a nice Gnome front-end for apt. But aptitude is yet another story. It seems to handle dependencies better. On the other hand, apt-lovers deny that. And the thing is going round-round: arguments are sparkling on both sides. (Can post some links...)
Now, I have read that if you are using Debian testing, which would be my case, then aptitude has real advantage in better handling dependencies over a long period of time. Argument was interesting: that for Ubuntu, it does not matter, since cycles are 6-months, but for long period, mess will be, eventually, large enough to cause problems.
Thus, please, enlighten me what would be the safest way and why!?
Best,
PM
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
There is a lot of BS and outdated info going arround on apt vs aptitude there are actually a couple of seperate issues.
One is tracking of unused packages, back in sarge it used to be that only aptitude did this and due to a bug in that tracking aptitude got in a mess if you used any other package manager (this bug is the source of most of the outdated advice not to mix apt-get and aptitude). In etch that bug was fixed but still only aptitude would track unused packages. In lenny and later tracking of unused packages was moved into libapt so other frontends also support it. There are differences in how they use it though, aptitude tries to remove unused packages as soon as they become unused while apt-get waits for the user to specifically request unused packages are removed.
The other is dependency resoloution. Aptitude uses it's own dependency resoloution system. Apt's system is simple, predictable and gives up quickly when it can't find a soloution. Aptitude's is more complex, less predictable and sometimes gives soloutions that are nothing like what the user asked for but it is more likely to find a soloution.
One is tracking of unused packages, back in sarge it used to be that only aptitude did this and due to a bug in that tracking aptitude got in a mess if you used any other package manager (this bug is the source of most of the outdated advice not to mix apt-get and aptitude). In etch that bug was fixed but still only aptitude would track unused packages. In lenny and later tracking of unused packages was moved into libapt so other frontends also support it. There are differences in how they use it though, aptitude tries to remove unused packages as soon as they become unused while apt-get waits for the user to specifically request unused packages are removed.
The other is dependency resoloution. Aptitude uses it's own dependency resoloution system. Apt's system is simple, predictable and gives up quickly when it can't find a soloution. Aptitude's is more complex, less predictable and sometimes gives soloutions that are nothing like what the user asked for but it is more likely to find a soloution.
This is complete bullshit, even back before unused package tracking was moved into libapt all using apt-get would have resulted in was some unused older libraries on your system.Now, I have read that if you are using Debian testing, which would be my case, then aptitude has real advantage in better handling dependencies over a long period of time. Argument was interesting: that for Ubuntu, it does not matter, since cycles are 6-months, but for long period, mess will be, eventually, large enough to cause problems.
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
People have different ideas, go to that link and see what others think and tell us what you think as well. But nobody even thinks synaptic can be better than either of apt or aptitude.
AMLJ**0-1-47
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Well, synaptic is quite a bit better if you just want to browse packages and have a peek at how applications look like. I've heard synaptic can also be used to install packages but what do I know, I use aptitude for that. And kudos for apt-* as well, great tools, all of them.AMLJ wrote:But nobody even thinks synaptic can be better than either of apt or aptitude.
Q: Why is the Eunux kernel so bloated?
A: It was made in the image of its founder.
A: It was made in the image of its founder.
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Doesn't synaptic have a good (better?) history function too?debil wrote:Well, synaptic is quite a bit better if you just want to browse packages and have a peek at how applications look like. I've heard synaptic can also be used to install packages but what do I know, I use aptitude for that. And kudos for apt-* as well, great tools, all of them.AMLJ wrote:But nobody even thinks synaptic can be better than either of apt or aptitude.
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
debil wrote: Well, synaptic is quite a bit better if you just want to browse packages and have a peek at how applications look like.
And I use the Software Center for that since I do like those pretty pictures.
But otherwise I stick to aptitude since it was Reccomended by Debian at the time I started using Debian.
Two servers running Wheezy and Squeeze, two laptops (T61,G530) running Jessie and Squeeze.
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
You are right, but I'm too lazy for that!debil wrote:Well, synaptic is quite a bit better if you just want to browse packages and have a peek at how applications look like. I've heard synaptic can also be used to install packages but what do I know, I use aptitude for that. And kudos for apt-* as well, great tools, all of them.AMLJ wrote:But nobody even thinks synaptic can be better than either of apt or aptitude.
AMLJ**0-1-47
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Last time i looked, Debian recommended Aptitude. I don't know why but that is why I use it frequently, especially for upgrades and complex tasks. I use Synaptic for package browsing and installing individual packages.
One reason that I use Aptitude is to keep familiar with command line. The same would be true for Apt-get. Sometimes we screw up and make a mess. At those times, it is important that we can resuscitate our damaged system with the fewest tools and that means command line.
One reason that I use Aptitude is to keep familiar with command line. The same would be true for Apt-get. Sometimes we screw up and make a mess. At those times, it is important that we can resuscitate our damaged system with the fewest tools and that means command line.
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Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
I use aptitude for package browsing. Just type aptitude in a terminal.
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
I use apt-get and Synaptic and occasionally aptitude. I don't find it matters which unless doing something like moving from release to release in which case I wouldn't use a GUI tool and would perform the upgrade from level 3. You can mix using apt-get and aptitude with no problems. If you pin packages you need to be aware that while apt-get and aptitude read /etc/apt/preferences Synpatic doesn't; it reads /var/lib/synaptic/preferences. You need to make sure both files are always the same or you'll be getting some unexpected behaviour.
Wisdom from my inbox: "do not mock at your pottenocy"
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
My advice is that you should learn how to use Aptitude's graphic interface and use it exclusively. It can show packages's information in tabs and it lets you perform individual operations on packages in a simpler way than on the command-line (a few clicks and undo's instead of long-as-hell commands).
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Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Dean showed in the other current post on this topic that this is no longer completely the case. The current recommendation is, to put it mildly, complex.Bulkley wrote:Last time i looked, Debian recommended Aptitude. I don't know why but that is why I use it
- apt-get is recommended as the console tool of choice for "system installation and major system upgrades for its robustness"
- aptitude is recommended as the console tool of choice for "daily package management"
"We have not been faced with the need to satisfy someone else's requirements, and for this freedom we are grateful."
Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, The UNIX Time-Sharing System
Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, The UNIX Time-Sharing System
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Good grief.Telemachus wrote:The current recommendation is, to put it mildly, complex.See the Debian FAQ 8.1.2 (apt-get) and 8.1.3 (aptitude) for all the gory details.
- apt-get is recommended as the console tool of choice for "system installation and major system upgrades for its robustness"
- aptitude is recommended as the console tool of choice for "daily package management"
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Good advice, didn't know, thanx.julian67 wrote:If you pin packages you need to be aware that while apt-get and aptitude read /etc/apt/preferences Synpatic doesn't; it reads /var/lib/synaptic/preferences. You need to make sure both files are always the same or you'll be getting some unexpected behaviour.
Can you explain to me why clicking through a GUI would be easier than a simpleemariz wrote:My advice is that you should learn how to use Aptitude's graphic interface and use it exclusively. It can show packages's information in tabs and it lets you perform individual operations on packages in a simpler way than on the command-line (a few clicks and undo's instead of long-as-hell commands).
Code: Select all
apt-get install XXXX
Code: Select all
aptitude install XXXX
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Sure, here's an example:TobiSGD wrote:Can you explain to me why clicking through a GUI would be easier than a simpleorCode: Select all
apt-get install XXXX
in a terminal?Code: Select all
aptitude install XXXX
You use Testing and you do your daily upgrade. Among the upgradable packages, there are some which are several MiB in size. Because you cannot wait till the download is complete, you decide to upgrade the rest now and upgrade the bigger ones later that night.
You then notice that packages A and B are going to be removed because the were automatically installed and its parent now depends on C and D. As always, you want those packages to be purged and not only removed.
You also notice that another package now depends on packages E or F or G (in that order), and you prefer to install F.
To perform those actions within Aptitude's graphic interface, you mark for upgrade (press +) all packages bar the bigger ones, mark the to-be-removed packages for purging (press _), mark for install the package F (press +) and mark it as automatically installed (press M), mark for remove package E (press _), review the actions (press g) and proceed (press g).
Could you please produce the command to perform those actions at once in the command line?
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
...and you have your left hand tied behind your back, your right eye has decreased vision and the 'a' key on your keyboard isn't working not to mention that you have two minutes to do this before your computer blows up
how dumb
certainly with all those clicks we have earned at least a few apt-get commands
ps - why are you removing E you didn't mention that it needed removing or that it was even installed
how dumb
certainly with all those clicks we have earned at least a few apt-get commands
ps - why are you removing E you didn't mention that it needed removing or that it was even installed
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Woa, do not know why i should do such complicated things. I run testing and unstable, my daily upgrade is done with a simpleemariz wrote:Sure, here's an example:TobiSGD wrote:Can you explain to me why clicking through a GUI would be easier than a simpleorCode: Select all
apt-get install XXXX
in a terminal?Code: Select all
aptitude install XXXX
You use Testing and you do your daily upgrade. Among the upgradable packages, there are some which are several MiB in size. Because you cannot wait till the download is complete, you decide to upgrade the rest now and upgrade the bigger ones later that night.
You then notice that packages A and B are going to be removed because the were automatically installed and its parent now depends on C and D. As always, you want those packages to be purged and not only removed.
You also notice that another package now depends on packages E or F or G (in that order), and you prefer to install F.
To perform those actions within Aptitude's graphic interface, you mark for upgrade (press +) all packages bar the bigger ones, mark the to-be-removed packages for purging (press _), mark for install the package F (press +) and mark it as automatically installed (press M), mark for remove package E (press _), review the actions (press g) and proceed (press g).
Could you please produce the command to perform those actions at once in the command line?
Code: Select all
apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
Package E must be marked for removal because it is a dependency with a higher priority than F, which is the dependency that I wanted to install.MeanDean wrote:certainly with all those clicks we have earned at least a few apt-get commands
ps - why are you removing E you didn't mention that it needed removing or that it was even installed
I'm sure that Apt-Get would need various commands to achieve that, but I don't know if they can be executed at once, for I have not run Apt-Get in years, literally.
MeanDean wrote:...and you have your left hand tied behind your back, your right eye has decreased vision and the 'a' key on your keyboard isn't working not to mention that you have two minutes to do this before your computer blows up
how dumb
All I can say is that we have a completely different approach to package management. I have done such actions several times. In fact, I got the example from my Aptitude's log of the last fortnight. The example seemed so probable that I didn't care to use proper names. The first part referred to the latest OpenOffice.org upgrade, the second to the removal of libxapian15 and tcl8.3, and the third one to the installation of pyRenamer with python-eyed3 instead of python-hachoir-metadata.TobiSGD wrote:Woa, do not know why i should do such complicated things. I run testing and unstable, my daily upgrade is done with a simpleNever had any problems with this.Code: Select all
apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
I expected more from you, MeanDean, due to Refracta. I thought that any of my everyday tasks would seem utterly simple when compared to the tasks involved in the creation of a distribution.
Re: Many times asked: apt -- aptitude -- synaptic...
For me that question is a complete non sequitur as the situation never arises. Why? Because the update process is automated via cron-apt, with candidates downloaded in the background. I receive an email telling me that apt-get update has run, that packages x,y,z will be upgraded and have been downloaded. Then I can choose to go ahead by running apt-get dist-upgrade, the packages are cached so no more downloading, no waiting. I think much of the point of having computers is that tasks can be automated. The idea that one has to jump through hoops to attend to the machine is nuts, as is the idea that a repetitive and routine daily task doesn't get handled transparently and automatically as far as is desirable.emariz wrote:You use Testing and you do your daily upgrade. Among the upgradable packages, there are some which are several MiB in size. Because you cannot wait till the download is complete, you decide to upgrade the rest now and upgrade the bigger ones later that night.......................
Could you please produce the command to perform those actions at once in the command line?
btw cron-apt works equally well with aptitude as with apt-get, and can be set to automatically install if desired (I use it this way on Debian stable) and has other useful options.
Anyway I seem to have been be able to variously run testing, to dist-upgrade machines from one release to another, and to move from one stable point release to another without ever finding a situation that required the super cow powers of aptitude. Imo people should just use what they prefer, but if I found myself in situations that require especially complex resolution using superpowers I'd be inclined to stop and ask myself what on earth did I do to arrive there in the first place? I recall that every time I've found myself in that situation the answer has been "I'm using opensuse".
Wisdom from my inbox: "do not mock at your pottenocy"