GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

If none of the more specific forums is the right place to ask

GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby shirish » 2011-06-09 05:35

Hi all,
I have been looking forward to the GNOME 3 transition but atleast for last few weeks it had been quite slow. In fact, http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.0-status.html shows no transitions to unstable after 29th May.

Does anybody have any idea why nothing has been moving on that front ? Maybe the python 2.7 transition (does anybody have a tracking bug/webpage of that as well ?)

Looking forward to the transition.
Intel Dual-Core CPU E5400 (soc 775) @ 2.70GHz, onboard Intel G33, Asus MB P5KPL-AM IN (Intel G31), D-Link 2750u modem+router, 64-bit Debian Testing, GNOME 3.14 Flashback.
shirish
 
Posts: 821
Joined: 2010-12-08 12:59

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby secipolla » 2011-06-09 14:17

That site simply isn't updated since May 29. I'm using it here and it's working very well.
Create /etc/apt/preferences.d/gnome with
Code: Select all
Package: *gnome* libglib2.0* *vte* *peas* libgtk* *pulse* *gjs* *gconf* *gstreamer* alacarte *brasero* cheese ekiga empathy* gdm3 gcalctool baobab *gucharmap* gvfs* hamster-applet *nautilus* seahorse* sound-juicer *totem* remmina vino gksu xdg-user-dirs-gtk dmz-cursor-theme eog epiphany* evince* *evolution* file-roller gedit* metacity *mutter* yelp* rhythmbox* banshee* system-config-printer transmission-* tomboy network-manager* libnm-* update-notifier shotwell liferea *software-properties* libunique-3.0-0 libseed-gtk3-0 libnotify* libpanel-applet-4-0 libgdata11 libcamel* libchamplain* libebackend* libebook* libecal* libedata* libegroupwise* libevent* libxklavier16  libgdu-gtk* python-gmenu libgdict*
Pin: release experimental
Pin-Priority: 500

Package: *
Pin: release experimental
Pin-Priority: 150

Then run 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade'
From time to time you have to remove items from the cited file as some things move to unstable or maybe add some if needed.
Currently libpulse0 from experimental is not installable but 'apt-get dist-upgrade' should automatically install from unstable, I think. If it doesn't, simply remove '*pulse*' from that pinning file.
secipolla
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2010-06-21 14:20

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby shirish » 2011-06-10 05:58

Dear secipolla ,
I *think* that would be hard. Not the apt-pinning. I have played/used it so have an idea, what would be hard probably is being kept into loop when things break.

I do have apt-listbugs installed but I guess it would be much easier also for the bugs to fall through using experimental then using sid/unstable (due to not many people using it, the classic chicken-egg thing) . This is my sole desktop/computer so can't risk it.

I just read phoronix tak on GNOME shell and while we should not take things at face-value it seemed to be interesting.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a ... ers1&num=9

phoronix wrote:GNOME Shell 3.0 is rather a mess right now in terms of bugs on various open and closed-source graphics drivers and in terms of causing performance regressions.


The comment though to be noted though is made for gaming and not for casual web-browsing, viewing flash videos etc.

I'm looking forward to the time when GNOME 3.0 is essentially in unstable.
Intel Dual-Core CPU E5400 (soc 775) @ 2.70GHz, onboard Intel G33, Asus MB P5KPL-AM IN (Intel G31), D-Link 2750u modem+router, 64-bit Debian Testing, GNOME 3.14 Flashback.
shirish
 
Posts: 821
Joined: 2010-12-08 12:59

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby secipolla » 2011-06-10 13:02

Fine.
It's advancing, in that kind of a Debian rythm (depends on the motivation and availability of the developers involved).

It's working fine. Its performance is said to be better than GNOME 2 and I think it is. There's also the fallback mode (without requiring 3D acceleration) and it's not just a second class one as it received the code optimizing benefits. The regular shell works pretty well with the NVIDIA driver (don't know about gaming).

I haven't noticed serious bugs probably because GNOME released a simple but working desktop.
It's easy to maintain. If a package isn't installable (like currently libpulse0), 'apt-get dist-upgrade' takes care of holding it back (not aptitude, which always wants to remove things before offering to hold back).
To know if things are obsoleted in experimental I update the apt database with Synaptic and then look in the obsolete packages. If things appear there I simply remove them from the pinning.

A summary of a few days experience.

I installed it from the minimal ISO upwards. If you have time and HD space you can always install it in a spare partition.
I even share /var/cache/apt/archives between my two Sid installations so I don't need to download them twice.
secipolla
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2010-06-21 14:20

Plenty is yet to be packaged

Postby paivakil » 2011-06-10 15:21

Please see this link)

http://technologytales.com/2011/05/29/gnome-3-in-fedora-15-a-case-of-acclimatisation-and-configuration/

I cannot find any package like gnome-shell-* in debian. But close to a dozen (hmmm.. exaggeration) are available from competing distros.

So, where are the small packages??? As they say, "god lies in the details".
It's not the software that's free; it's you.
paivakil
 
Posts: 434
Joined: 2009-02-15 11:57

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby secipolla » 2011-06-10 16:03

I don't understand what you're asking, palvakil.
The GNOME 3 packages in Debian are some in the unstable repository and some in the experimental one; that's why we need the pinning file to instal it more easily.
-edit- if you mean the extensions, then, well, GNOME 3 isn't ported to this level to Debian (and actually those are not really an official part of GNOME, I think).
-edit2- is that article yours? There's a mention to dconf-editor; that must be some Fedora thing as there isn't a dconf-editor in GNOME: http://git.gnome.org/browse/
secipolla
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2010-06-21 14:20

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby secipolla » 2011-06-10 19:33

Actually the gsettings command is very straightforward (run with no arguments for usage) and makes GNOME customizable as usual.
secipolla
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2010-06-21 14:20

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby shirish » 2011-06-10 20:04

secipolla,
There is a dconf-tools package and its the dconf-editor but somehow it gets conflicted with a system tool called dconf

Code: Select all
$ aptitude show dconf-tools
Package: dconf-tools                     
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Version: 0.7.5-2
Priority: optional
Section: utils
Maintainer: Debian GNOME Maintainers <pkg-gnome-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Uncompressed Size: 57.3 k
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.5), libdconf0 (>= 0.5), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.27.2)
Conflicts: dconf
Description: simple configuration storage system - utilities
 DConf is a low-level key/value database designed for storing desktop
 environment settings.
 
 This package contains the command line tools. Note that DConf is not
 connected with the older Debian package named dconf.
Homepage: http://live.gnome.org/dconf


See the conflict therein. That should not be there. I have already submitted a bug for the same and some DD/DM did concur that conflict should not be there.

I say its the dconf-editor because if you install it and read the news.gz you see the following output :-

News.gz wrote:Changes in dconf 0.7.3
======================

This release consists almost entirely of fixes made by Robert to
dconf-editor. A few other trivial build fixes are included as well
(bumping library version dependencies to match reality, etc).


As far as gnome-shell extensions is concerned, I have been keeping an eye on this one.

http://intgat.tigress.co.uk/rmy/extensions/index.html

For the GNOME-fallback mode (as and when GNOME shell makes it in) have bookmarked this one

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gnom ... lback.html
Intel Dual-Core CPU E5400 (soc 775) @ 2.70GHz, onboard Intel G33, Asus MB P5KPL-AM IN (Intel G31), D-Link 2750u modem+router, 64-bit Debian Testing, GNOME 3.14 Flashback.
shirish
 
Posts: 821
Joined: 2010-12-08 12:59

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby secipolla » 2011-06-10 20:20

The guy behind dedoimedo hasn't got the grip of it yet. A (much) better reference for the fallback mode is http://www.vuntz.net/journal/post/2011/ ... nome-panel!
secipolla
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2010-06-21 14:20

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby shirish » 2011-06-12 17:33

nice, I *think* I saw it on the planet gnome as well sometime back.

I did happen to read this mail which gives some idea of the roadmap of GNOME 3 and the various transitions that would need to take place.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-release ... 00111.html

I best way to track what is happening seems to be the debian-gtk mailing list.

The last communication was on 6th June on the same topic.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gno ... 00002.html

Looking forward to this.
Intel Dual-Core CPU E5400 (soc 775) @ 2.70GHz, onboard Intel G33, Asus MB P5KPL-AM IN (Intel G31), D-Link 2750u modem+router, 64-bit Debian Testing, GNOME 3.14 Flashback.
shirish
 
Posts: 821
Joined: 2010-12-08 12:59

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby sej7278 » 2011-06-12 19:00

as someone who has defected from fedora15 as a direct result of gnome-shell, i really wouldn't get too excited about gnome3 on debian!
sej7278
 
Posts: 225
Joined: 2011-06-11 17:03

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby secipolla » 2011-06-12 21:41

Now mutter has also entered unstable (remove *mutter* from pinning).
secipolla
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2010-06-21 14:20

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby shirish » 2011-06-12 21:53

sej7278 wrote:as someone who has defected from fedora15 as a direct result of gnome-shell, i really wouldn't get too excited about gnome3 on debian!


well, I know or what has been said in the blogosphere and elsewhere that GNOME 3.0 is less usable than GNOME 2 and while I don't have any fancy graphics hardware that could use GNOME 3 compositing, I am interested to see some of the new and bug-fixed stuff they have supposed to be done with the updated/new gnome-panel.

As and when things happen I would be using gnome 3 fallback mode atleast for the next couple of years if not more. I would be using the extensions to mimic the behavior of GNOME 2.0 in gnome 3.0

I am also optimistic as this would be the first release (hence the .0) it would take further releases of gnome 3.2 to incorporate stuff based on people's feedbakc.

On a somewhat offish-note I did find where they host/display the planned/ongoing transitions and saw nice graphs of the transitions happening as well.

http://release.debian.org/transitions/

as well as one of the planned transitions.

http://release.debian.org/transitions/h ... otify.html

It seems most of the GNOME 3 packages is supposed to be installed right next to gnome 2 so hopefully we don't get any broken systems.

All in all, find all this documentation also pretty interesting, although the volume in mailing lists are huge ..

Edit: secipolla, just saw your updated mutter post, yup it happened today, downloaded and installed it.
Intel Dual-Core CPU E5400 (soc 775) @ 2.70GHz, onboard Intel G33, Asus MB P5KPL-AM IN (Intel G31), D-Link 2750u modem+router, 64-bit Debian Testing, GNOME 3.14 Flashback.
shirish
 
Posts: 821
Joined: 2010-12-08 12:59

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby shirish » 2011-06-17 06:43

3 more packages to be removed from that pinning file. Both gucharmap, vte and gnome-terminal are now in unstable.

The GNOME 3 terminal feels a bit funny, somehow a bit lighter ?
Code: Select all
Package: *gnome* libglib2.0* *peas* libgtk* *pulse* *gjs* *gconf* *gstreamer* alacarte *brasero* cheese ekiga empathy* gdm3 gcalctool baobab gvfs* hamster-applet *nautilus* seahorse* sound-juicer *totem* remmina vino gksu xdg-user-dirs-gtk dmz-cursor-theme eog epiphany* evince* *evolution* file-roller gedit* metacity  yelp* rhythmbox* banshee* system-config-printer transmission-* tomboy network-manager* libnm-* update-notifier shotwell liferea *software-properties* libunique-3.0-0 libseed-gtk3-0 libnotify* libpanel-applet-4-0 libgdata11 libcamel* libchamplain* libebackend* libebook* libecal* libedata* libegroupwise* libevent* libxklavier16  libgdu-gtk* python-gmenu libgdict*
Pin: release experimental
Pin-Priority: 500


Edit: An interesting blog post by arstechnica on the same topic.

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news ... ome-30.ars
Intel Dual-Core CPU E5400 (soc 775) @ 2.70GHz, onboard Intel G33, Asus MB P5KPL-AM IN (Intel G31), D-Link 2750u modem+router, 64-bit Debian Testing, GNOME 3.14 Flashback.
shirish
 
Posts: 821
Joined: 2010-12-08 12:59

Re: GNOME 3 transition standstill ?

Postby shirish » 2011-06-23 17:28

lwn.net published a GNOME 3 article as well. http://lwn.net/Articles/447457/#Comments

Made the same apt-pinning file but made sure its alphabetically done so things can be looked and removed more quickly as they move up the gangway :-

Code: Select all
Package: alacarte baobab banshee* *brasero* cheese dmz-cursor-theme ekiga empathy* eog epiphany* evince* *evolution* file-roller gcalctool *gconf* gdm3 gedit* *gjs* gksu *gnome* *gstreamer* gvfs* hamster-applet libcamel* libchamplain* libebackend* libebook* libecal* libedata* libegroupwise* libevent* liferea libgdict* libgdata11 libgdu-gtk* libglib2.0* libgtk* libnm-* libnotify* libpanel-applet-4-0 libseed-gtk3-0 libunique-3.0-0 libxklavier16 metacity *nautilus* network-manager* *peas* *pulse* python-gmenu remmina rhythmbox* seahorse* shotwell *software-properties* sound-juicer system-config-printer tomboy *totem* transmission-*  update-notifier vino xdg-user-dirs-gtk yelp*             
Pin: release experimental
Pin-Priority: 500


Btw pam and it brethen and gnome-doc-utils have also moved to unstable.
Intel Dual-Core CPU E5400 (soc 775) @ 2.70GHz, onboard Intel G33, Asus MB P5KPL-AM IN (Intel G31), D-Link 2750u modem+router, 64-bit Debian Testing, GNOME 3.14 Flashback.
shirish
 
Posts: 821
Joined: 2010-12-08 12:59

Next

Return to General Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

fashionable