Worrying trend.

[Bulkley]

What's with the rash of newbies posting about Kali Linux here? Kali is definitely not for beginners so why are they installing it? Is someone out there in the Googlesphere pushing Kali? Does Kali attract youngsters who dream about becoming the next super hacker?

[dasein]

Does Kali attract youngsters who dream about becoming the next super hacker?

This gets my vote. Kali sounds kewl and leet and stuff (probably even moreso if one doesn't really understand enough to tell Kali from a hole in the ground).

As for why they post here, I'd venture to guess (purely speculative, of course) that the Kali forums probably don't take wannabe-script-kiddies all that seriously. So they wander over here in an ultimately futile attempt to find some kind of recognition of their l33t hax0r status.

(Or maybe I'm totally wrong. Whichever.)

[vbrummond]

I was wondering about this as well. I don't like supporting most derivatives because I have no idea what Debian version they are based on, what is changed, whatever. It's kind of frustrating.

[llivv]

It's the same issue as we had a few years ago with the Be Friendly To ubutu Users campaign.
unfortunately there are enough ubutu sympathizers that will answer the questions rather then say take it to it's proper forum.
And diluting this forum with stuff that is usually stricly ubutu and has little if anything to do with Debian

Please Stop.

[Randicus]

randicus wherefore art thou

still under the red sun somewhere or elsewhere, I hope

I left this board. I occasionally look through the list of new threads to see if there is anything entertaining. I dare not hope for anything useful. Nice to know someone missed me though.
Now I fade back into obscurity for an extended period.

[Bulkley]

I left this board. I occasionally look through the list of new threads to see if there is anything entertaining. I dare not hope for anything useful. Nice to know someone missed me though.
Now I fade back into obscurity for an extended period.

Pop in when you can. You always have worthwhile comments.

[Randicus]

You always have worthwhile comments.

But definitely against the grain of the current board. (Buntard Forum Debian Edition)
- I have never bothered to visit the Debian website and I want to ... How do I do it? (Wireless internet ring any bells?)
- I have never used Debian, so of course I installed Testing, and it is not working. Help me!
- apt is broken. It stopped working after I added Testing and/or Unstable and/or Butnut/Mint/Kali repositories. Why is apt so buggy? No wonder most people use Debian derivatives.
- How can I sudo make my Debian system either use Butnut and Mint packages or configure the system to look and behave like Butnut/Mint. I like Debian better, but I want it to be just like <name of system>.
- How do I configure my Butnut/Mint/Kali system? All Debian-based systems are the same, so tell me.

Although I must admit, sometimes the board can be entertaining. Can't beat free entertainment.

[kedaha]

Two things I notice most is posts by new members - with a post count of between 1 and 20 - who have installed testing or even sid. I suppose they see them as "the latest Debian" and the other is the apparent uncritical acceptance of proprietary software: how to install it is the only thing of interest.
One may wonder how many new users read What we expect you have already done? Maybe something similar to the serverfault.com/questions/ask/advice? where users are prompted to confirm they've thoroughly searched for an answer before posting would help.
It's good to see posts by new, thoughtful users -fewer and far between - and try and offer help but it is a matter of concern if more experienced members leave but maybe something could be done to buck the "worrying trend."

[Randicus]

but maybe something could be done to buck the "worrying trend."

Kick Comical's developers out of the Debian project?

I notice most is posts by new members - with a post count of between 1 and 20 - who have installed testing or even sid.

Remove links for Testing ISOs from the main pages and bury them somewhere where only experienced users will find them. It also would not hurt to strengthen the warning about Testing being meant for people who know what they are doing. One problem is there are quite a few people posting all over the internet that Testing is simply Stable with newer packages. With links to the ISOs only one or two clicks from the home page and lacking a real warning, there is no need for inexperienced Linux users to doubt the claim. [Contrary to their belief, most of the people who have been using Butnut and Lint for several years are still clueless newbies. (Even worse than I am.) They have used the aforementioned systems without learning anything, but, and it is to be expected, believe they are experienced users because of the length of time they have used (pseudo)Linux systems.] So making Testing less prominent would be a good step.

and the other is the apparent uncritical acceptance of proprietary software

I shall avoid the strong temptation to launch into a rant about Windows users who know nothing about free software and do not care. Thank you Butnut, Lint, et al.

[kedaha]

One problem is there are quite a few people posting all over the internet that Testing is simply Stable with newer packages. With links to the ISOs only one or two clicks from the home page and lacking a real warning, there is no need for inexperienced Linux users to doubt the claim.

Regarding newer packages, the use of untested software on desktop systems is not entirely different for servers; for example, when I installed wordpress on my server, I had to read a lot and the vast majority of search results were about "installing wordpress from the latest tarball" rather than the Debian way of installing the stable version -which was the option I chose - from the main repository. Alas, such posts propagate all too quickly and can make searching for key answers like looking for a needle in a haystack; it took me hours to find a way to enable updating themes and plugins in the wp interface via ftps and much of the time was wasted sifting through irrelevant search results.

[hakerdefo]

It's not at all worrying! Once upon a time Unix/Linux usage was limited to scientists, programmers, developers, academics, computer hobbyists. Skill levels of these guys were naturally very high. They were capable of researching, isolating and solving their problems on their own and only in major crisis they used to seek advise in forums and chat rooms.
Things have changed now. Many casual computer users are turning to Linux for a variety of reasons. These casual computer users are nowhere as skilled as the guys I mentioned above. They tend to seek refuge of forums at the first sight of the problem not because they are lazy but most of them don't have necessary knowledge to do the troubleshooting on their own.
It's upto the Debian community in general and experienced users in particular to decide whether to assimilate these new inexperienced users and their seemingly newbish questions or shun them away. And if they decide to choose the later it will be a shame on the community of 'The Universal Operating System'.
Cheers!!!

[Randicus]

Of course inexperienced users should not be turned away, but that does not mean abandoning the philosophy UNIX-based systems are built upon; self-reliance. That does not mean being an expert. What it does mean is at least trying to find solutions: reading the documentation; if not understood or cannot be found, ask on a forum. One of the biggest problems today is the ridiculous attitude that is prevalent; that users should not need to read. If a system is "terrible" enough that it requires user intervention, users are entitled to answers from forum members. Looking at documentation is a waste of their time. Whining sloths consider receiving links to documentation to be rude responses from elitists. Those people should not be welcomed, but those who have an interest and are willing to learn the basics should be welcomed with open arms. After the learn a little, they can become contributing members to a fourm and to the larger open source world.

[Absent Minded]

Of course inexperienced users should not be turned away, but that does not mean abandoning the philosophy UNIX-based systems are built upon; self-reliance. That does not mean being an expert. What it does mean is at least trying to find solutions: reading the documentation; if not understood or cannot be found, ask on a forum. One of the biggest problems today is the ridiculous attitude that is prevalent; that users should not need to read. If a system is "terrible" enough that it requires user intervention, users are entitled to answers from forum members. Looking at documentation is a waste of their time. Whining sloths consider receiving links to documentation to be rude responses from elitists. Those people should not be welcomed, but those who have an interest and are willing to learn the basics should be welcomed with open arms. After the learn a little, they can become contributing members to a fourm and to the larger open source world.

One might say "Amen" to something like that.

[Randicus]

In regards to the problem in the OP.

Makululinux ... is Debian Based, running on Kernel 3.13.x 32bit PAE, provides a Sleek, Smooth and Stable user experience that is able to run on any computer ...

Makulu provides software and codec's pre installed on the OS, to provide an out of the box experience for the end user and his day to day tasks.

Steam is pre installed on Makulu, you can simply log into steam and start playing your favorite game titles.

Wine is pre installed on Makulu, installing windows software has never been easier, simply double click your installer or exe files and they will operate in linux much the same way they do in windows.

1) Debian pre-installed with (I assume) proprietary crapware. No need for users to know the difference between free and proprietary. It just needs to work as-is.
2) An OS is useless without Steam.
3) Comes with Wine so people can use Linux, in this case Debian, without using open source software. They can install a Linux system and still use all their beloved Windows applications. Yippie!

If that distribution survives, soon users will show up here and on DUF asking for help with their "Debian" system. Most likely, they will be seeking help to repair apt, which mysteriously stopped working after adding Butnut repositories.

[kedaha]

but maybe something could be done to buck the "worrying trend."

Kick Comical's developers out of the Debian project?

No! It would be sufficient to kick the Non-Free and Contrib repositories out of Debian.

[Randicus]

Sufficient, but kick Shuttleworth's employees out anyway. If we are lucky they would take Synaptic and Update Manager with them.

[Linadian]

but maybe something could be done to buck the "worrying trend."

Kick Comical's developers out of the Debian project?

No! It would be sufficient to kick the Non-Free and Contrib repositories out of Debian.

Oooooooo, sorry, I have to disagree with that one, contrib and non-free aren't the problem, it's testing and unstable, I agree with an earlier poster, 'hide' the links to testing and unstable, not for wannabes and kiddies. Disabling contrib and non-free would send hordes running to the Frankenbuntus.

[llivv]

Sufficient, but kick Shuttleworth's employees out anyway. If we are lucky they would take Synaptic and Update Manager with them.

then all that we'd have to left to fix would be sysdbus

[kedaha]

Sufficient, but kick Shuttleworth's employees out anyway. If we are lucky they would take Synaptic and Update Manager with them.

You forgot to mention the Ubuntu Software Center! , but regarding synaptic, some kind of gui is necessary for a stable, desktop system where only minimal administration efforts are necessary - like occasional updating etc. A desktop system is pre-eminently a graphical user interface so users can browse the internet, work with the office suite, do spreadsheets or whatever application they care to use without using the command line at all, unless they're running testing or sid. On the other hand, administering a server is a different kettle of fish; it simply cannot be done without continual use of the command line interface when packages like synaptic, update manager and the software center - designed for desktop use - are completely superfluous.

[Randicus]

Does Debian have that Software Centre thingie now? Oh dear.

A desktop system is pre-eminently a graphical user interface

That does not mean using a terminal for basic procedures, such as installing updates, should be eliminated. People who do not want to learn anything, even something as trivial as apt-get update, have systems already created with them in mind. Of course they cost money, but that is the price to pay for freedom and free (no money). (I can see the next few posts already. Angrily denouncing me as an elitist who wants to keep Linux away from the masses, because I know how to use apt-get. )