Very depressed

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Re: Very depressed

Postby Danielsan » 2017-06-28 22:15

I am sorry for what happened to Garry however sometimes people get angry for some reason, anyway the problem is the Debian wiki which is the real weakness of the entire ecosystem.

For example regarding systemd the wiki debian has about 326 words and the arch wiki 777, it doesn't pretend to be very scientific but others distro put a lot of emphasis also in the wiki but not Debian so even the RTFM becomes useless.
Last edited by Danielsan on 2017-06-29 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very depressed

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-06-28 22:17

Edited: there was another post while writing and it is on a new page:
Postby Dai_trying » 2017-06-28 15:36
I know I don't always agree with everything that you type Gary, but there is no reason at all for you to even think that your input is not welcome, just look at your previous posts and see the users you have helped on one way or another.
My main issue with this forum is the lack of help for new or inexperienced users, and this is not a dig at you, there are quite a few "helpers" in this forum who would rather just tell people they haven't done enough research or googling to merit giving an answer, and then writing an almost essay type reply when the answer is quite simple and would take a couple of sentences at most, but it would seem three or four paragraphs of chastising someone is more enlightening to them?? ---snip----


You are right on what your saying, and actually it has been suggested to me
to try making the replies shorter, and especially when I really don't know
the answer myself, but when I see comments like this:
It is a pack of software piled up by stupid incompetents that don't even know what they're doing.

It can and does really irk me, and it does not help the person looking for a solution either.
I am can type pretty fast , not close to some secretaries I know, but never the
less it is really east to write what turns into a long page in just a couple of minuets
or less.
by Dai_trying »Just my opinion but a short and sweet answer to a newbie and maybe a couple of informative links would yield a lot more positive attitudes and less aggressive replies.

I think you are right, and that is some thing I can keep trying to improve on my
end.
thanks
PS. Yes, the wiki really needs a lot of work, it would be nice if , instead of complaining here, and saying things like the above, about "stupid incompetents", it would be nice if some more competent members, that understand some of the issues with systemd, would take the few minuets it
takes to register, etc. It is for Debian users, and the Debian users can edit it,
etc.
Those that simply do not want to use a OS with systemd, really need to just forget about trying to convince the Debian team to not use it, they are set on
that, in spite of the problems. That is where it really is best for everybody if
those that prefer something else, IE; system V , or other,...
Being that systemd is still relatively new, there still is a lack of good detailed documentation, and new problems seem to keep popping up.
Calling the people trying to solve those problems "stupid incompetents ",
only serves to discourage them from trying to fix the problems and provide
the users with a reliable OS.
Thank you all for the feed back , it is encouraging.
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Re: Very depressed

Postby alan stone » 2017-06-29 04:00

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Human beings are works in progress that mistakenly think they are finished. - Dan Gilbert
In every undertaking, the more humans try to be demi-gods, the more they become half-monsters. – Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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Re: Very depressed

Postby Lysander » 2017-06-29 11:43

For a long time I have called the internet "the idiot's playground". Years of going to forums, imageboards and chatrooms has given me quite a thick skin with regard to offensive user posts. It has also shown me that the majority of user comments and content on the internet are trivial and essentially worthless.

For instance the other day on here someone called me a "moron" in another thread - I did my best to rise above it and give them an informative, productive response which supported my reasons for saying what I said. Poetic justice fulfilled, the topic was locked as a result of the poster's comment.

When people make comments like GTFO, moron etc etc etc it does nothing but shows the internet how immature they are. I guarantee you that no-one with a brain reading user comments like that thinks "haha he showed him" or "what a creative and risible put-down". No, they only think the poster acted childishly.

Your work here is very much appreciated. And don't concern yourself with people who make such comments, you're giving them more time than they deserve.
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Re: Very depressed

Postby acewiza » 2017-06-29 11:56

You just need to occasionally remind yourself who you're dealing with on the Internet: The PUBLIC. They suck. You don't. :D
Nobody would ever ask questions If everyone possessed encyclopedic knowledge of the man pages.
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Re: Very depressed

Postby eor2004 » 2017-06-29 12:02

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Re: Very depressed

Postby wizard10000 » 2017-06-29 12:35

Garry, I've read your posts for a couple years now and I think you're doing a fine job :)

Just remember, illegitimi non carborundum.

:mrgreen:
we see things not as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
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Re: Very depressed

Postby None1975 » 2017-06-29 13:33

GarryRicketson wrote:The new release of Debian 9 has seemed to resulted in several forum members
being very upset, not happy with it, also they seem to be very unhappy with the
forum, this has triggered a very heavy depression

Hello. You are not alone :D
Here quote from the Steve's blog:
Here's a nice comment I received by email this morning. I guess somebody was upset by my last post?

From: Tec Services <tecservices911@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:30:26 -0700
To: steve@einval.com
Subject: its time for you to retire from debian...unbelievable..your
the quality guy and fucked up the installer!

i cant ever remember in the hostory of computing someone releasing an installer
that does not work!!

wtf!!!

you need to be retired...due to being retarded..

and that this was dedicated to ian...what a
disaster..you should be ashames..he is probably roling in his grave from shame
right now....

It's nice to be appreciated.


Link https://blog.einval.com/2017/06/22#troll
OS: Debian 9.1 / WM: Openbox
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian
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Re: Very depressed

Postby Ardouos » 2017-06-29 16:29

You are always welcome here Garry, I think it is great that you try to encourage people to look for the answers through reading documentation. Remember; it takes many different types of people to help troubleshoot issues or to be involved in various topics. Just because that particular OP was a lost cause doesn't mean that other people you have helped in the past or may will help in the future won't appreciate you.

Help the people who are searching for a genuine answer, ignore the trolls and the ranters.
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Re: Very depressed

Postby golinux » 2017-06-29 19:12

roseway wrote:I can never understand why people can't discuss things they disagree about without being abusive.

That's what we do in the Devuan camp
Occasionally there will be a zinger but not often.
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: Very depressed

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-06-29 20:43

RE:Link https://blog.einval.com/2017/06/22#troll
I hadn't seen that, pretty nasty. No I am not alone, anyway,
That is also why I found this comment so irritating:
It is a pack of software piled up by stupid incompetents that don't even know what they're doing.

I am not directly involved with the development ,and maintaining, etc.
It does not target a specific person, but a entire group.
The forum guidelines say about bumping posts, and I had noticed the repeated
bumping, but since it was not every 5 min, but every day or few days, ...
that was not a problem, but finally the ultimate "bump" where the comments
about , "stupid in competents", etc,... that is what triggered my response,...
The GTFO comment, well, no big deal really, a few people saying that or some
thing similar, IE:
its time for you to retire from debian...

There is a whole bunch of things going on lately, and combined , it does
get depressing, and that is sad, because Debian, using it, and helping with the forum, also with the wiki, these are all things I enjoy, and that is the main thing,
I enjoy it, it shouldn't be depressing,...
It is very encouraging to see a lot more people actually do seem to appreciate
it, that tips the balance so to speak,
acewiza wrote:You just need to occasionally remind yourself who you're dealing with on the Internet: The PUBLIC. They suck. You don't. :D

This is very true, maybe not just me, but anyone else, as well that might be
feeling the same,... all though, I wouldn't go so far as to say , "I don't suck",...
I am not perfect either, and sometimes can and do say things that trigger responses I deserve, even if I did not intentionally mean to insult some one,
it does not change the fact that I did, in which case a apology often helps resolve that kind of thing.
On that I will apologize to kereberos, in that what I said was not directed at him/her only , it was / is intended for others as well, that might read the thread,..
This is not the first time someone says:
The documentation is wrong and doesn't work.

Often other as well make this type of comment,....
All the documentation is wrong ? , I don't think so. A lot of it is very good ,
and a lot of people work hard trying their best to write, and update it.
It is depressing when people say things like this, about the work we do,
for them.
But, I ask this, How can we improve it ? , when the complainer does not even
tell us, specifically which documentation is wrong, and even better , give us
some details about exactly what is wrong with the particular document.

This support forum is also very disappointing because nobody ever knows anything. I looked at other topics.

Ok, and the above,... I did not include the user name of the most recent, and
it is not just that user, but others as well,... "NOBODY ever knows anything".
Again, my apology if I am to sensitive or something, but that is very unfair
to say, when there are several members here that very patiently explain what they can, after literally having to pry the relevant details out of the person with
the problem, some even take the time to try the package on their own system,
to try to find or duplicate the problem, others like StevePusser, even will take the time to recompile packages, etc. so someone can use Debian.
There are several excellent helpers, volunteers , that go to great extremes to try to help people solve problems, and quite often do.
I appreciate this very much, the efforts they make, and accomplish, that probably is why it is really the most popular forum, for Debian users, and look at how many even come from other forums, for other distros, Why ? they were not able to get the help they needed, and here they do.
So a big thanks to all of you that do help these people that can not seem to be able to do so on their own. Please do not let the few complainers discourage you,
we do appreciate what you are doing.
So any way, I do see I am not alone, thanks everyone,... and working together
hopefully we not only can keep this forum as use full as it is, but maybe improve it, and also get the current issues with Debian and the documentation improved, and more up to date, etc.
Guess for now that is about it.
P.S. Just notice what Golinux posted while I was writing.Leads to another issue.
For those that really simply hate systemd, and do not want to use it:
It would be considerably more productive, to just use the OS's or "forks" that are available, that do not use systemd.
Not that I want to discourage anyone from using Debian, but if the current Stabel versions are not the type of OS one wants or needs, then really the only option , is to find one that is "your kind of OS".
Coming here, just to "bash" systemd, and the current stable version, with no desire to help try to fix the problems involved with it, really just wastes every bodies time, and gets depressing.
Hope golinux does not take that wrong, I do think it is great that every so often you remind people there is another option, and the work you all are doing with Devuan is praise worthy.
So thanks for keeping us informed on that.
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2017-06-30 01:44, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Very depressed

Postby HuangLao » 2017-06-30 00:13

GarryRicketson wrote: Guess for now that is about it.
P.S. Just notice Golinux, posted,.... leads to another issue,..for those that really
simply hate systemd, and do not want to use, that would be considerably more productive, to just use the OS's that are available, that do not use systemd,...
Not that I want to discourage anyone from using Debian, but if the current Stabel versions are not the type of OS one wants or needs, then really the only option
is to find one that is "your kind of OS".
Coming here, just to "bash" systemd, and the current stable version, with no desire to help try to fix the problems involved with it,... really just wastes every bodies time, and gets depressing.
Hope golinux does not take that wrong, I do think it is great that every so often you remind people there is another option, and the work you all are doing with Devuan is praise worthy,... so thanks for keeping us informed on that.


+100
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Re: Very depressed

Postby Lysander » 2017-06-30 08:51

None1975 wrote:Hello. You are not alone :D
Here quote from the Steve's blog:


Wow, amazing. I think this is an appropriate juncture to share Richard Dawkins reading his hate-mail.

[side note: I don't agree with many of Dawkins' views, but this is nevertheless amusing.]
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Re: Very depressed

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-06-30 13:51

Kind of a change of topic, but speaking of hate mail,
you should see some of the stuff we get at Stop Forum Spam,
But , similar , overall a lot of people do appreciate what we
do as well,
I think this is viewable be the general public, not sure though.
https://www.stopforumspam.com/threats
and that is just a few of them.
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Re: Very depressed

Postby kalwisti » 2017-06-30 14:21

Hello, Garry,

I'd just like to say that your efforts here in the forum are appreciated and make it a friendlier place. You have a helpful spirit, are always polite, patient and try to direct posters back to Debian documentation (when appropriate). :)

I'm sorry that rude remark was made to you, but please don't let it get under your skin too much. Hang in there! To quote some advice given by my father: "Don't let the turkeys get you down."
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