Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

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Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby Starborn » 2018-11-10 15:56

A curious observation I often make.

When searching for information about Debian, Google (what else?) rarely gives links to postings on the Debian forums. It gives tons of hits to the Ubuntuforum and to other forums and to blogs - and those are helpful too - but never/rarely the Debian forums.

Why is this? Is this on purpose, and if so, is it not a bad idea to "hide" the Debian forums from people that use a search engine to find information on Debian?

Just a question that pops into my head.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby bw123 » 2018-11-10 16:19

You're right I pasted "Why does Google not show the Debians forums?" and no hits on at least the first five pages... no biggie, the first hits are all from productforums.google.com linuxmint.com and ubuntuforums.com maybe they have a relative that works for google?
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-11-10 16:36

But Google does show the Debian User Forums,
It might be because you don't use good search terms in your key words,
Me, I get this forum as the first hit:
Image
I don't usually use Google though, let's see about StartPage:
Debian Support Forums

Why is this? Is this on purpose, and if so, is it not a bad idea to "hide" the Debian forums from people that use a search engine to find information on Debian?

We have no control over what Google decides to show as results in a search, obviously it is not on purpose. You can however thank the so called SEO experts , and Marketing engineers, (those are just fancy names for spammers), they pollute the search engines with commercial sites, so most results are usually sites with a few key words, and the rest advertising,... it is a marketing thing, corrupting the search engines with useless info, spam and advertisements, but that is where the $$$$ money is, and Google responds, putting the sites that support the profitable marketing business, you know, the commercialization of internet,... Here at Debian User Forums, have you noticed, we don't have any advertising, etc,... like so many of the commercial sites do ?
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby Segfault » 2018-11-10 16:47

Haven't used Google for years, they filter they results with Political Correctness. Even searching for a 'heat gun' or similar may not give you good results - see, there is this horrible word 'gun'. Not to mention they are pressing their destructive leftist agenda. I use Startpage currently. I do not want Masters of Universe to decide what I can see and what I cannot.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-11-10 16:56

I just did some other search strings, poorly worded, and got Ubuntu websites first, look at the difference, look close at the top right corner, you will see the Microsoft advertisement, in a Google adds box,
Image
It does not show well in the thumb nail, but if you click the image you can get a full sized view.
Below, this is actually supposed to be the Ubuntu support site, and where you can get it, Geez, I all ways though Ubuntu was Free, but look down at the bottom right corner,... ..
Image
Do you really want Debian, and these forums to get like this ?
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby No_windows » 2018-11-10 20:27

Starborn wrote:A curious observation I often make.

When searching for information about Debian, Google (what else?) rarely gives links to postings on the Debian forums. It gives tons of hits to the Ubuntuforum and to other forums and to blogs - and those are helpful too - but never/rarely the Debian forums.

Why is this? Is this on purpose, and if so, is it not a bad idea to "hide" the Debian forums from people that use a search engine to find information on Debian?

Just a question that pops into my head.


I believe some forums are setup to disallow it. I suspect that's the case here.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-11-10 20:48

@OP, use startpage.com to avoid being trapped in the Big G's filter bubble.
dbruce wrote:Ubuntu forums try to be like a coffee shop in Seattle. Debian forums strive for the charm and ambience of a skinhead bar in Bacau. We intend to keep it that way.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby Starborn » 2018-11-17 10:11

GarryRicketson wrote:But Google does show the Debian User Forums,

I surely HOPE that Google shows the Debian forum, when entering "Debian support forum", or I would have been really suspicous! :D

https://www.google.be/search?client=opera&q=debian+check+screen+resolution&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
(Hey, look: the Google folks know I am using Opera :twisted:. Firefox ESR stinks, and not just in Debian.)

But no, no Debian forums.

Or, say:

https://www.google.be/search?client=opera&q=debian+install+printer&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Nope, no Debian forums.

Or are all Debian users THAT well-informed that no one has ever asked at the forums how to check the used screen res and how to install a printer in Debian? :)

Okay, let us try Startpage.

https://lmsptfy.com/?q=debian%20install%20printer
No Debian forums. A few Wiki and Debian package pages, but no forums.

DuckDuckGo?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=debian+install+printer&t=h_&ia=web
Nothing.

Wait, there is one hit - http://www.debianuserforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=1491

GarryRicketson wrote:It might be because you don't use good search terms in your key words,

Is "Debian install printer", or "Debian check screen resolution", a bad way to search?

Perhaps I have to pose it as a question?:
https://www.google.com/search?ei=c-3vW7LFHcaWsAfS4YywDQ&q=how+do+i+check+the+screen+resolution+in+Debian%3F&oq=how+do+i+check+the+screen+resolution+in+Debian%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i22i29i30.1508.1508..2138...0.0..0.76.76.1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.sYu_f0pYb3s

No Debian forums.

A few search engines that respect one's privacy too(?) (Never ever ever heard of them)

https://www.qwant.com/?q=debian%20check%20screen%20resolution&t=web
(Some French search engine. No, I am not French.)

No Debian forums.

"Searx", some open source search engine (Never heard of it.). No Debian forums. (I cannot copy the search URL itself?)

Or... Baidu?

https://www.baidu.com/s?ie=utf-8&f=8&rsv_bp=0&rsv_idx=1&tn=baidu&wd=debian%20check%20screen%20resolution&rsv_pq=975feb020002d2d8&rsv_t=45f1o6aTLmXUnWL25iH%2Fbp2F%2BBx8smrGWDE8sxY7LmM%2B1OvXyRIsz%2FkwY%2F4&rqlang=cn&rsv_enter=1&rsv_sug3=25&rsv_sug2=0&inputT=5165&rsv_sug4=5166

First time in my life I am on Baidu.com. No Debian forums.

GarryRicketson wrote:We have no control over what Google decides to show as results in a search, obviously it is not on purpose.

As one sees, not one search engine shows (and if, then barely) the Debian forums. That cannot be a coincidence.

GarryRicketson wrote:Here at Debian User Forums, have you noticed, we don't have any advertising, etc,... like so many of the commercial sites do ?

Now that you mention that, I indeed realise this (that is how little attention I pay to ads).

Perhaps it is time for me to make a donation to Debian, like I have already done for a few other distros a couple of times (https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/debian/).

GarryRicketson wrote:look close at the top right corner, you will see the Microsoft advertisement

What advertisement? :) I don't see any advertisement. :)( Just kidding: I do see it. I just don't/ever pay attention to it, let alone click on it.)

Garry Ricketson wrote:Do you really want Debian, and these forums to get like this ?

I will (still) defend Ubuntu Linux: it was for me the start of GNU/Linux back in 2007. Ubuntu 10.04 was the best/nicest/greatest OS that I have ever used in my entire life (Sorry, Clem Lefebvre of Linux Mint :) )

As for Canonical as a company, I could not really care less.

-oo-

When I search for information, I want to find it. If this or that search engine gives me that information, then I will use that search engine again.
Yes, I sometimes notice the same ads showing up on different websites (like about some coat - as in clothing; I do not shop online - earlier this week (???) ), but I have "programmed" myself to ignore ads.
Google does this the best: I regularly use other search engines, then I curse because I do not exactly find what I want, and then I go over to Google again and find what I look for.

Google earns money, while they give me the information I want? Fair enough. They are a for-profit corporation, after all. Without businesses there would be no (cheap/free) Internet.

As for Google knowing information about me: I'd rather have a private company to have information on me than the (my) government (the latter being very unlikely, considering the incompetent imbeciles in "charge" here...).

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: use startpage.com to avoid being trapped in the Big G's filter bubble.

The thing is that Google is the best...

Privacy <> Results. It is an important issue, but a quick choice, if I want good information.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby reinob » 2018-11-17 11:10

Starborn wrote:Why is this? Is this on purpose, and if so, is it not a bad idea to "hide" the Debian forums from people that use a search engine to find information on Debian?


You should ask google, not here :)

The only factor controlled by the forum itself which may have a (severe) impact in the google ranking is the fact that forums.debian.net does not use SSL/TLS (of any kind). AFAIK google lowers the rank of insecure pages significantly.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby milomak » 2018-11-17 13:36

now that you mention it, whenever i do a google search including the term debian in the search this forum never shows up
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby debiman » 2018-11-17 16:41

Starborn wrote:Google (what else?)

a lot else.
https://duckduckgo.com/
https://www.startpage.com/
to only name 2.
both more suited to search for linux stuff than google; no search bubble.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-11-17 16:42

Starborn wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote: use startpage.com to avoid being trapped in the Big G's filter bubble.

The thing is that Google is the best...

Privacy <> Results. It is an important issue, but a quick choice, if I want good information.

You misunderstand me: startpage.com forwards anonymous search queries to Google on the user's behalf in order to avoid the filter bubble that distorts results depending on previous search history.
dbruce wrote:Ubuntu forums try to be like a coffee shop in Seattle. Debian forums strive for the charm and ambience of a skinhead bar in Bacau. We intend to keep it that way.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-11-17 17:51

The thing is that Google is the best...

That is a matter of opinion. I don't think it is the best, unless of course you like advertising and spam, then I suppose it would be.
==== kind of off topic, but ===
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Who is "we", are you extraterrestrial or what ? I certainly am not some "star child" , I hatched from a egg, but can't speak for the others. :mrgreen:

I suffer from depression and may lash out occasionally, try not to take it personally.

And while we are on the subject, me too, I actually am diagnosed manic depressive, so that's my excuse for my erratic mood swings,... and yes, please don't take it personal :mrgreen:
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-11-17 18:07

GarryRicketson wrote:
I suffer from depression and may lash out occasionally, try not to take it personally.

And while we are on the subject, me too, I actually am diagnosed manic depressive, so that's my excuse for my erratic mood swings,... and yes, please don't take it personal :mrgreen:

:mrgreen:

Thanks for sharing Garry but I have to say that I've never seen you be nasty to anybody (unlike me), you seem to be a fundamentally nice person :)
dbruce wrote:Ubuntu forums try to be like a coffee shop in Seattle. Debian forums strive for the charm and ambience of a skinhead bar in Bacau. We intend to keep it that way.
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Re: Why does Google not show the Debians forums?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-11-17 19:03

That is because I managed to delete the posts before anyone replied or saw them, I guess.

Someone mentioned about the ssl (https) thing, and it is a factor as well, another factor, Ubuntu is much more common, more problems, and questions are asked about Ubuntu, so it often comes up first.
Google is so bad, even when I use for example, key words: "How to install Debian",... if I use google, there still will be results on MS windows, and Ubuntu, as well as for Debian, google is a corrupted search engine, and will return results that they want you to see, not necessarily results that are related to your key words.
Also, a high page rating, does NOT make it the best OS, or the best buy deal, eaither. In fact, usually the first page top results will be the worst companies, but they have put the most money into their promotions and advertising.
If the Debian community really wanted to promote Debian, and this forum, they could use some of the money that gets donated to do that, but that is NOT what Debian, nor this forum is about, Debian is not looking for high webpage rankings with google, neither is the forum owner/admin or admins. Quality, is what is the priority, not high page rankings on Google.
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