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Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
It violates logic. The median is definitely not 3.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
0+1+2+3+4+5=15
15/6=2.5
2.5 rounds to 3.
It seems pretty easy for me - and it requires human intelligence. Besides, as already stated, a human will try more times, whereas a bot probably won't.
15/6=2.5
2.5 rounds to 3.
It seems pretty easy for me - and it requires human intelligence. Besides, as already stated, a human will try more times, whereas a bot probably won't.
Because let’s face it, the unfortunate aspect of software development is that it involves humans. Mewling, disorganized, miserably analog humans. Sometimes they smell bad.
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
Correct. To work out the median: there are six numbers so (6+1)/2 = 3.5, so the median is the 3.5th number ?edbarx wrote:It violates logic. The median is definitely not 3.
There is no median.
0 is a number. Sums of numbers are always numbers; 1 - 1 = 0. 0 isn't 0.9999* nor 0.1111* it has a definite value and is considered a number.
Debian Squeeze + KDE 4.4.4 + AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000 + nVidia GeForce 8600
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
That isn't the median it's the mean.Tadeas wrote:0+1+2+3+4+5=15
15/6=2.5
2.5 rounds to 3.
It seems pretty easy for me - and it requires human intelligence. Besides, as already stated, a human will try more times, whereas a bot probably won't.
Debian Squeeze + KDE 4.4.4 + AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000 + nVidia GeForce 8600
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
The question is what's the middle number. And 3 is the closest as I proved above.Raffles10 wrote:That isn't the median it's the mean.
Because let’s face it, the unfortunate aspect of software development is that it involves humans. Mewling, disorganized, miserably analog humans. Sometimes they smell bad.
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
The middle number is 7.5Tadeas wrote:The question is what's the middle number. And 3 is the closest as I proved above.Raffles10 wrote:That isn't the median it's the mean.
Wisdom from my inbox: "do not mock at your pottenocy"
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
Middle and median are the same thing. What you did was to work out the mean number, which is quite different.Tadeas wrote:The question is what's the middle number. And 3 is the closest as I proved above.Raffles10 wrote:That isn't the median it's the mean.
Debian Squeeze + KDE 4.4.4 + AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000 + nVidia GeForce 8600
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
where is the "what" option?
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
I voted "Yes" (the "middle number" question is too confusing).
Defeating the bot is one thing, confusing the human by the question AND the hint is another thing. Because this is the only site I see such a confusing antibot system. I am not convinced by the efficiency of this confusing mechanism as the answer seems to be a constant.
You can achieve the same effect by replacing by a question like "Give a number less than 64". Then on subsequent failure, the screen just gives an extra hint to guide the user to the right answer (like "The secret number is higher/lower"). Starting with 64, in 6 attempts max (2^6 = 64) the user should find the correct answer.
Admittedly, a bot specially designed will still beat that system. As it also beats the constant answer "3" of the aforementioned confusing question. The new mechanism will be also frustrating for the user, but, at least, the poor guy knows why and when his registration misery will end.
Defeating the bot is one thing, confusing the human by the question AND the hint is another thing. Because this is the only site I see such a confusing antibot system. I am not convinced by the efficiency of this confusing mechanism as the answer seems to be a constant.
You can achieve the same effect by replacing by a question like "Give a number less than 64". Then on subsequent failure, the screen just gives an extra hint to guide the user to the right answer (like "The secret number is higher/lower"). Starting with 64, in 6 attempts max (2^6 = 64) the user should find the correct answer.
Admittedly, a bot specially designed will still beat that system. As it also beats the constant answer "3" of the aforementioned confusing question. The new mechanism will be also frustrating for the user, but, at least, the poor guy knows why and when his registration misery will end.
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
Not too sure how you got 6 attempts hereDynamo wrote:Starting with 64, in 6 attempts max (2^6 = 64) the user should find the correct answer.
> 100
< The number is lower
> 99
< The number is lower
> 98
< The number is lower
> 97
< The number is lower
> 96
< The number is lower
> 95
< The number is lower
> 94
< The number is lower
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
You use the bubble sort algorithm.Mez wrote:Not too sure how you got 6 attempts hereDynamo wrote:Starting with 64, in 6 attempts max (2^6 = 64) the user should find the correct answer.
Using your example:
- Machine: The number is lower (than 100)
- You: 50 (the middle between 100 and 1)
- Machine : the secret number is higher
- You: 75 (the middle between 50 and 100)
- Machine: the secret number is lower
- You: 62 (the middle between 50 and 75).
- Machine: the secret number is lower
etc.
As you see in only 3 answers, I already know that the secret number is between 51 and 61. And this is with a starting number of 100. For 100, you need 7 guesses max (2^7 = 128). Hope you see what I meant.
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
You can use a monochromatic picture that doesn't depict text. By monochromatic I do not mean necessarily a black and white picture. Any colour can do, especially uncommon ones. Then, present the user with a multiple choice question.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
Suggestion 2:
Generate a picture by slightly modifying random noise. This should be more diffilcult for bots to read. Then ask the user what he/she sees.
Generate a picture by slightly modifying random noise. This should be more diffilcult for bots to read. Then ask the user what he/she sees.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
Given the individual differences among varous users, how would you generate a list of acceptable responses?edbarx wrote:Suggestion 2:
Generate a picture by slightly modifying random noise. This should be more diffilcult for bots to read. Then ask the user what he/she sees.
debian sid
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
Give them a 20 question timed IQ test
100 or more ---> Regular member
80 - 100 ----> Beginners thread only
less than 80 ---> send them to Microsoft forums where they'll be happy
100 or more ---> Regular member
80 - 100 ----> Beginners thread only
less than 80 ---> send them to Microsoft forums where they'll be happy
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
The basis of my suggestion is that humans are much more capable at image recognition compared to a bot. The noise I am referring to, is the "image" generated when there is no video signal. Modern TV sets tend to block that.jheaton5 wrote:Given the individual differences among varous users, how would you generate a list of acceptable responses?
Obviously, one has to use simple images and users should be presented with a multiple choice question.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
got it. I thought you were randomly generating pictures.
debian sid
Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?
Generating the images:
Noise pixel: (R, G, B)
Image pixel: (r, g, b)
Mixing factor: f where 0 <= f <= 1
Resultant red component = f*R + (1 - f)*r
green = f*G + (1 - f)*g
blue = f*B + (1 - f)*b
f can be varied until the image is barely distinguishable.
Noise pixel: (R, G, B)
Image pixel: (r, g, b)
Mixing factor: f where 0 <= f <= 1
Resultant red component = f*R + (1 - f)*r
green = f*G + (1 - f)*g
blue = f*B + (1 - f)*b
f can be varied until the image is barely distinguishable.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusi
Yup too confusing. It's pretty clear after getting it wrong but you shouldn't have to get a question wrong to get through. Even "what is the middle number rounded up?" would make it clearer. Man this is the sort of thing that will niggle away at me all day now, a little part of me wants to go re-register so I can get it right first time.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusi
Maybe it should require typing in the contents of
Code: Select all
man man
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