Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

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Is the "Middle number" question too confusing?

Poll ended at 2009-12-04 19:56

Yes
7
41%
No
6
35%
3
4
24%
 
Total votes : 17

Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby edbarx » 2009-11-20 20:18

It violates logic. The median is definitely not 3.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Tadeas » 2009-11-20 21:28

0+1+2+3+4+5=15
15/6=2.5
2.5 rounds to 3.
It seems pretty easy for me - and it requires human intelligence. Besides, as already stated, a human will try more times, whereas a bot probably won't.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Raffles10 » 2009-11-20 21:29

edbarx wrote:It violates logic. The median is definitely not 3.


Correct. To work out the median: there are six numbers so (6+1)/2 = 3.5, so the median is the 3.5th number ? :?

There is no median. :mrgreen:

0 is a number. Sums of numbers are always numbers; 1 - 1 = 0. 0 isn't 0.9999* nor 0.1111* it has a definite value and is considered a number.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Raffles10 » 2009-11-20 21:31

Tadeas wrote:0+1+2+3+4+5=15
15/6=2.5
2.5 rounds to 3.
It seems pretty easy for me - and it requires human intelligence. Besides, as already stated, a human will try more times, whereas a bot probably won't.


That isn't the median it's the mean. :wink:
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Tadeas » 2009-11-20 21:54

Raffles10 wrote:That isn't the median it's the mean. :wink:

The question is what's the middle number. And 3 is the closest as I proved above.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby julian67 » 2009-11-20 22:05

Tadeas wrote:
Raffles10 wrote:That isn't the median it's the mean. :wink:

The question is what's the middle number. And 3 is the closest as I proved above.


The middle number is 7.5
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Raffles10 » 2009-11-20 22:05

Tadeas wrote:
Raffles10 wrote:That isn't the median it's the mean. :wink:

The question is what's the middle number. And 3 is the closest as I proved above.


Middle and median are the same thing. What you did was to work out the mean number, which is quite different. :wink:
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby milomak » 2009-11-21 13:07

where is the "what" option?
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Dynamo » 2009-11-22 21:09

I voted "Yes" (the "middle number" question is too confusing).

Defeating the bot is one thing, confusing the human by the question AND the hint is another thing. Because this is the only site I see such a confusing antibot system. I am not convinced by the efficiency of this confusing mechanism as the answer seems to be a constant.

You can achieve the same effect by replacing by a question like "Give a number less than 64". Then on subsequent failure, the screen just gives an extra hint to guide the user to the right answer (like "The secret number is higher/lower"). Starting with 64, in 6 attempts max (2^6 = 64) the user should find the correct answer.

Admittedly, a bot specially designed will still beat that system. As it also beats the constant answer "3" of the aforementioned confusing question. The new mechanism will be also frustrating for the user, but, at least, the poor guy knows why and when his registration misery will end.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Mez » 2009-11-22 21:26

Dynamo wrote:Starting with 64, in 6 attempts max (2^6 = 64) the user should find the correct answer.


Not too sure how you got 6 attempts here

> 100
< The number is lower
> 99
< The number is lower
> 98
< The number is lower
> 97
< The number is lower
> 96
< The number is lower
> 95
< The number is lower
> 94
< The number is lower
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Dynamo » 2009-11-23 03:24

Mez wrote:
Dynamo wrote:Starting with 64, in 6 attempts max (2^6 = 64) the user should find the correct answer.

Not too sure how you got 6 attempts here

You use the bubble sort algorithm.

Using your example:
- Machine: The number is lower (than 100)
- You: 50 (the middle between 100 and 1)
- Machine : the secret number is higher
- You: 75 (the middle between 50 and 100)
- Machine: the secret number is lower
- You: 62 (the middle between 50 and 75).
- Machine: the secret number is lower
etc.

As you see in only 3 answers, I already know that the secret number is between 51 and 61. And this is with a starting number of 100. For 100, you need 7 guesses max (2^7 = 128). Hope you see what I meant.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby edbarx » 2009-11-23 09:38

You can use a monochromatic picture that doesn't depict text. By monochromatic I do not mean necessarily a black and white picture. Any colour can do, especially uncommon ones. Then, present the user with a multiple choice question.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby edbarx » 2009-11-24 09:11

Suggestion 2:

Generate a picture by slightly modifying random noise. This should be more diffilcult for bots to read. Then ask the user what he/she sees.
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby jheaton5 » 2009-11-24 16:36

edbarx wrote:Suggestion 2:

Generate a picture by slightly modifying random noise. This should be more diffilcult for bots to read. Then ask the user what he/she sees.

Given the individual differences among varous users, how would you generate a list of acceptable responses?
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Re: Is the "What is the middle number?" Question too confusing?

Postby Pick2 » 2009-11-24 18:51

Give them a 20 question timed IQ test
100 or more ---> Regular member
80 - 100 ----> Beginners thread only
less than 80 ---> send them to Microsoft forums where they'll be happy :lol:
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