"Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby Ron_Holland » 2011-02-06 18:41

Soul Singin' wrote:I'll refrain from discussing him further.


Same goes for me.
A certain person doesn't want to understand my opinion and is trying to provoce me.
I rather avoid that.

To all, again my sincere apologies if my posting looked like a bit of trouble making.
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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby mojoman » 2011-02-06 19:01

julian67 wrote:What a different place this was when most of the admins and mods actually enjoyed the company of the members, participated on the board and had a sense of humour and proportion.


I think this is half the heart of the matter (though some mods and admins still are very much part of the community and not just policing it). The other half of the heart of the matter is the change that was sought in the atmosphere of the forum, in order to make it more friendly towards newcomers. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the energy spent on this has involved so much heavy-handed moderation, tut-tut-ing and policing of the member that it actually made the place more hostile and intolerant. Talk about unintended consequences.

edited for clarity
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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby julian67 » 2011-02-06 20:10

I agree. Somehow being more friendly to newcomers has been implemented as "let new members be as rude, antagonistic and provocative as they like (repeatedly). Meanwhile be harsh and intolerant towards the existing members." Great work. I wonder if anyone ever checked that new members even get better advice?

btw I wasn't criticising all the current mods or admins because several put an awful lot of time and goodwill into this place. But in any place like this the mood is ultimately set by the people who run it, who set policy and who are in the position to encourage some people/behaviour and sanction/disallow other people/behaviour. That isn't exactly working out. The relationship changed from us being on reasonable and friendly terms with those in the position to make the place work, to now us being the bloody peasants who are required to shut up and mind our own damn business.
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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby traveler » 2011-02-06 20:26

julian67 wrote:The relationship changed from us being on reasonable and friendly terms with those in the position to make the place work, to now us being the bloody peasants who are required to shut up and mind our own damn business.

One of the nobles stated he would request cynwulf's punishment be withdrawn, then apparently did not follow through. There's nothing wrong with expecting "staff" to do what they say they are going to do. There seems to be no accountability- and now some of the peasantry are discontent.
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Edit: This isn't just about cynwulf. It's been brewing for a long time now, cynwulf's ban is just the latest episode.
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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby mojoman » 2011-02-06 20:30

I agree. Somehow being more friendly to newcomers has been implemented as "let new members be as rude, antagonistic and provocative as they like (repeatedly). Meanwhile be harsh and intolerant towards the existing members."


The relationship changed from us being on reasonable and friendly terms with those in the position to make the place work, to now us being the bloody peasants who are required to shut up and mind our own damn business.


Pretty much sums up how I feel about it. I also think there is a direct causal connection here. The increasing number of one-liners that lay down the law is hammering this point home with crystal clarity.
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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby saulgoode » 2011-02-07 05:42

julian67 wrote:I agree. Somehow being more friendly to newcomers has been implemented as "let new members be as rude, antagonistic and provocative as they like (repeatedly). Meanwhile be harsh and intolerant towards the existing members." Great work.

You were (repeatedly) aware of "rude, antagonistic and provocative" behavior taking place which you deemed detrimental to the forums ... and yet you never reported it? Well, at least you're not alone.

Only two posts by user nomko have been reported since his return from a ban at the start of this year. Both those posts appeared in a thread explicitly directed at nomko, and nomko's initial responses in that thread were to raise reasonable and gently phrased objections to the topic. I responded to those two reports by removing the thread and sending a PM advising the "existing member" that I considered his post ill-advised and suggesting that an apology was in order. Both those reports came from the same user, and I thank that user for taking the time to submit those reports.

No other posts by user nomko were ever reported since his return to the forums.

Furthermore, in scanning nomko's recent posting history, I found many posts with which I disagreed, some posts which I thought poorly worded, and some inappropriate posts he made in response to direct personal attacks. I do not consider the first two to be actionable offenses; and I would not consider it conscionable to act on the latter without doing likewise to those who initiated the attacks in the first place (regardless whether they happened to be around when jeroen ran these forums on a Pentium under his desk).

So where are these posts wherein nomko, unprovoked, insulted or directly antagonized other members of these forums? And if they exist, why did nobody report them to the staff? If anyone wishes to discuss the principles of justice and equity in the administration of these forums, a good start would be to address those two questions.
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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby llivv » 2011-02-07 06:00

Soul Singin' wrote:By now, most regular members of these forums have read the post in which Cynwulf argues with SaulGoode's decision to ban him. Many forum members have chosen to support Cynwulf by linking to that post in their signatures.

On the issue of his banishment, I am neutral. I do not have any strong feelings one way or the other. But an analogy may be useful, particularly to younger forum members who have not entered the workforce yet.

On the job, provocateurs like Nomko usually get a slap on the wrist for their bad behavior, while the people who respond to the provocation tend to receive stronger punishments. That seems unfair to me. In my opinion, provocation is worse than reaction. Nonetheless, it is a fact of life. People who respond tend to be punished more harshly.

Continuing the analogy ... If your boss decides to punish you, arguing with your boss in public will get you fired. It does not matter how wrong your boss is. It does not matter how much your co-workers support you. It does not matter how talented you are. Arguing with your boss in public will get you fired.

So I see why Cynwulf will not be returning any time soon.

As I mentioned, I am neutral on the issue of his banishment. I'm not trying to take sides. I'm just trying to find a useful lesson to learn from this sad story.
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there is more going on here behind the scenes than is ever going to be expressed in public...
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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby traveler » 2011-02-07 06:01

Absent Minded wrote:This thread has turned into just another flame war. Personal attacks all over as well. As such I am locking the thread.

Nokimo, if you continue to intentionally incite flame wars, your next ban will be a permanent one instead of just two weeks.

Enjoy the peace while it lasts here.

At least one mod seems to have noticed the trend.
Any word on your request to lift cyn's ban?
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Re: "Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

Postby Mez » 2011-02-07 10:17

Cynwulf will be freed when his ban is automatically lifted (which I believe is in about 10 days time, without actually working it out)

However, this thread is now closed.
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