"Free Cynwulf now" -- an analogy

[Soul Singin']

By now, most regular members of these forums have read the post in which Cynwulf argues with SaulGoode's decision to ban him. Many forum members have chosen to support Cynwulf by linking to that post in their signatures.

On the issue of his banishment, I am neutral. I do not have any strong feelings one way or the other. But an analogy may be useful, particularly to younger forum members who have not entered the workforce yet.

On the job, provocateurs like Nomko usually get a slap on the wrist for their bad behavior, while the people who respond to the provocation tend to receive stronger punishments. That seems unfair to me. In my opinion, provocation is worse than reaction. Nonetheless, it is a fact of life. People who respond tend to be punished more harshly.

Continuing the analogy ... If your boss decides to punish you, arguing with your boss in public will get you fired. It does not matter how wrong your boss is. It does not matter how much your co-workers support you. It does not matter how talented you are. Arguing with your boss in public will get you fired.

So I see why Cynwulf will not be returning any time soon.

As I mentioned, I am neutral on the issue of his banishment. I'm not trying to take sides. I'm just trying to find a useful lesson to learn from this sad story.
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[traveler]

There is no need for further discussion over this matter.

[Rifester]

Just when I thought we were moving to a kinder, more gentle forum... People were hugging and using emoticons and now this has turned ugly. Can't we all just move on and return to the Debian utopia that we had? Spread peace and good will.... On a lighter note did you hear that Squeeze will be released as Debian stable soon? I read it on the OMG Debian site....

[traveler]

There is no need for further discussion over this matter.

(((Hugs)))

[Rifester]

I knew you could do it, welcome back! <<<Hugz>>> to you as well!
Doesn't that feel nice? Much better then all of the banning and name calling. Good work! Keep it up!

[anticapitalista]

Continuing the analogy ... If your boss decides to punish you, ...
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Shoot the boss. Or as is said in the USA - go postal (I think)

[Soul Singin']

Continuing the analogy ... If your boss decides to punish you, ...

Shoot the boss. Or as is said in the USA - go postal (I think)

You have the phrase right. "Going postal" refers to the sad cases when US postal workers shot and killed their bosses and co-workers.

Of course, that is an unconscionable act. If you have a serious disagreement with your boss, then the proper course of action is to resign.
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[traveler]

If you have a serious disagreement with your boss, then the proper course of action is to resign.
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Or go over his head to be heard.

As a resolution to these differences, I will submit a request to the forum administrators to lift your ban, along with my resignation as a moderator of these forums.

What was the result? Don't care if the mod quits, not seeking blood. Any news on the "request" to lift the ban? Last I checked, mods didn't need to file requests...
:::crickets:::
That's what I thought.

[Coco]

Its quite apparrent that what is missing here is love, so I'd just like to say... I love you guys!

[Mr James]

Its quite apparrent that what is missing here is love, so I'd just like to say... I love you guys!

*hugs*

[Ron_Holland]

By now, most regular members of these forums have read the post in which Cynwulf argues with SaulGoode's decision to ban him. Many forum members have chosen to support Cynwulf by linking to that post in their signatures.

On the issue of his banishment, I am neutral. I do not have any strong feelings one way or the other. But an analogy may be useful, particularly to younger forum members who have not entered the workforce yet.

On the job, provocateurs like Nomko usually get a slap on the wrist for their bad behavior, while the people who respond to the provocation tend to receive stronger punishments. That seems unfair to me. In my opinion, provocation is worse than reaction. Nonetheless, it is a fact of life. People who respond tend to be punished more harshly.

Continuing the analogy ... If your boss decides to punish you, arguing with your boss in public will get you fired. It does not matter how wrong your boss is. It does not matter how much your co-workers support you. It does not matter how talented you are. Arguing with your boss in public will get you fired.

So I see why Cynwulf will not be returning any time soon.

As I mentioned, I am neutral on the issue of his banishment. I'm not trying to take sides. I'm just trying to find a useful lesson to learn from this sad story.
.

And why arguing about it now? Why again stoking the fire?
You write here and i quote: .....In my opinion, provocation is worse than reaction..... As seeing the reactions of that person cynwulf on this forum which i have read, his/her reaction is much worse than the provocation: hostile/aggressive behaviour/attitude, scolding, bashing, calling names. Even so, if someone is provocative, there's not a single reason for anybody to respond on that provocation! So, what's worse? The provocation or the persons who are responding to those provocations. If someone is provocative, the best to do is just simply ignore that person which seems to be very difficult for some persons here and for cynwulf in particular. He couldn't resist to respond which lead to his ban (don't know for how long but that's not the questions here).

And looking to this post: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=348674#p348690, there's a small thing which we all are overlooking:
Quoting Mez (board administrator):
There is no need for further discussion over this matter.

So, stop arguing about this and stop the discussion. The decision has been made which can't be turned back. These kind of posting are childish and pettyfull and do no good for this forum which i find very interesting.

[julian67]

I'm bored of people who have been here for periods between 0 days and a few weeks lecturing everyone. Some people have been here a while and actually have the means to compare how things are going now and how they were in the past. So please, if you're new do feel free to express your opinions at/about all of us but don't expect anyone to care.

I don't know all the ins and outs of Cynwulf getting banned, but I am amazed that longstanding members who are generally positive and helpful get hammered while worthless annoying shitheads intent on causing trouble get the full benefit of the doubt, the kind of tolerance one usually only extends to infants, and practically encouraged to hang aroung and mess things up.

I have something to say about the administration of the board. First the policy is for this to be done via pm. The first time I pm'd Mez (on a different subject) I didn't even get the plain courtesy of a reply. I did hear via the grapevine his pejorative and condescending reaction. My crime was to offer to help out with the spam cleaning (a few months go when it wasn't getting done in good time because there weren't enough mods or spam hunters). The act of volunteering apparently marks me out as the kind of person he won't have helping out. I know someone else reported getting the exact same snotty response, which is why I know what I heard is authentic. Now for the next time I pm'd Mez: that was just a few days ago and was prompted by all this stink about Cynwulf. It never left my outbox I guess because Mez didn't log in, or maybe there is some other reason, I'm not entirely clear how board pm system works. So I gave up expecting to be able to express myself privately as per board policy and deleted it and I'll state some of it here on the public area of the board instead:

We used to have admins who took part in this board just like any other member, were friendly, knew people here, were involved. They liked it here! When the crap hit the fan, as it does on any board, they had the advantages that they usually knew the personalities involved and also they already had the respect of the members, so if they needed to administer a warning or suspension they generally got it right and people had some respect for their decisions. It really helps if you have a store of goodwill. You get this by acting like a human being and engaging with people. If you act like a 3rd rate deity and treat the place and its members with contempt or indifference then guess what - they think you're an asshole too! If some people running this board don't much like the members, don't like to put in the time, and don't want to participate, well what the hell are you doing here anyway?

[MALsPa]

Well, julian67, someone like Ron_Holland might be new here, but he did make some good points, and said some things that I'm sure a lot of us agree with; especially:

So, stop arguing about this and stop the discussion. The decision has been made which can't be turned back. These kind of posting are childish and pettyfull and do no good for this forum which i find very interesting.

Not that I really believe some people here will be able to let it drop. But the whole thing is getting so ridiculous. I mean, I guess it can be thought of as fun entertainment, in a Jerry Springer type of way.

I don't have the energy or the desire to really examine who was right or wrong here but I figure the mods in question felt that they were doing the right thing, and they didn't simply punish people for no reason at all. Something prompted them to take action, okay? But, whatever. The entire discussion has become so silly. Folks could just drop it and move on, or you can continue pounding your head against the floor, it's pretty much your choice. Just seems like there are more important things in life to be concerned about.

[Rifester]

MALsPA,
More true words could not have been spoken.... Time for everybody to move on and do their part to make this a better community forum.

Take care.

[AMLJ]

Just when I thought we were moving to a kinder, more gentle forum... People were hugging and using emoticons and now this has turned ugly. Can't we all just move on and return to the Debian utopia that we had? Spread peace and good will.... On a lighter note did you hear that Squeeze will be released as Debian stable soon? I read it on the OMG Debian site....

*Hugs n Kisses*

But it's really not that easy... Cynwulf is one of the best members, and one of the users I really respect... What happened was a shame! This nomko guy is just here in order to piss us off, and I must admit, he has done a really great job... I once started a thread talking about his behavior, and he tried to make others think the wrong way by raising stupid questions.
I tried to end the fight with him, and he gave me a stupid answer, which made me sure the only thing he wants is pissing me and others off...

Wondering if the mods and admins are going to open their eyes a bit more, and think about this a bit more...

[mojoman]

If some people running this board don't much like the members, don't like to put in the time, and don't want to participate, well what the hell are you doing here anyway?

I've wondered that sometimes myself but not very often as I simply visit less frequently and post less often. Maybe they're just sort of herding and directing poor mindless critters for the good of the critters?

Anyway, the forum has been on a steady downward trajectory for about two years time. The stuff that has been going on the last weeks would have shocked my numb two years ago. Now, I hardly raise an eyebrow. It says a lot.

As for the analogy, well, I guess a beef with the boss could get you fired and a beef with the administration could get you banned. A boss could always find another employee and a forum could always find other members. But eventually word gets around that the company is not a very attractive workplace and the boss finds it hard to attract competent people and the one that do work there are discontent. Maybe there is an analogy here too?

[Ron_Holland]

Anyway, the forum has been on a steady downward trajectory for about two years time. The stuff that has been going on the last weeks would have shocked my numb two years ago. Now, I hardly raise an eyebrow. It says a lot.

So. what happened two years ago, has that Nomko person any credit in it? I hardly doubt it: 2010-12-10 08:01, link: http://forums.debian.net/memberlist.php ... le&u=36268. he just a member for about 4 months? He really can't be held responsible for the downward trajectory of this forum. All the members here can be held responsible for it for the last 2 years, not just one person who joined recently.

And now i hope there's an admin who's that smart to close this thread otherwise this will turn into some fighting topic who's right or wrong.

[debil]

And now i hope there's an admin who's that smart to close this thread otherwise this will turn into some fighting topic who's right or wrong.

You're wrong.

There is no need for further discussion over this matter.

[mojoman]

So. what happened two years ago, has that Nomko person any credit in it? I hardly doubt it: 2010-12-10 08:01, link: http://forums.debian.net/memberlist.php ... le&u=36268. he just a member for about 4 months? He really can't be held responsible for the downward trajectory of this forum. All the members here can be held responsible for it for the last 2 years, not just one person who joined recently.

I never said Nomko was responsible for the state that the forum has turned into. And this for the simple reason that I don't believe it. Don't try to pin view on me that I don't have.

[julian67]

So. what happened two years ago, has that Nomko person any credit in it? I hardly doubt it: 2010-12-10 08:01, link:

Nobody claimed that. mojoman didn't even mention nomko in the post you reference. Please don't misrepresent what people say just in order to take an antagonistic position. That's usually referred to as a strawman and, coming from someone here less than three days(!) who somehow has such strong opinions about the status of this board, it can easily be seen as trouble making aka trolling.