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Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-13 12:51
by mharrison
Mr James wrote:
Now you get the reason for my sarcastic reply in the other thread: the massive influx of Ubuntu users coming here trying to a) post how satisfied they are with Ubuntu, b) post help requests on getting Debian to act like Ubuntu or c) post crap like this.
And then they disappear back to the Ubunut forums from whence they came.
......
A lot of good that does with this type of thread. Were I to snarl at the OP, then the thread would get closed and I would get a warning.
Oh, I got your sarcasm...my Sarcasm Meter was off the charts. And I keep forgetting, that the powers that be must be getting paid off because the trolls are running amok here..it's sad...I think I would rather just stick to the IRC channel, but that is just as bad with the "I'm using Debian but I want it to do exactly what my Ubuntu install does..."
I may not be an elder here but I think I'm out for a while...perhaps after a bit longer after the 6.0 release the OMGUbuntu crowd will have gone from here.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-14 21:19
by mzilikazi
mharrison wrote: And I keep forgetting, that the powers that be must be getting paid off because the trolls are running amok here..
Feel free to report all trolls as per the
forum guidelines. I don't see this particular question as a post by a troll. Failure to RTFM does not a troll make.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-14 22:41
by llivv
mzilikazi wrote:Feel free to report all trolls as per the
forum guidelines. I don't see this particular question as a post by a troll. Failure to RTFM does not a troll make.
I guess every situation is different, making for an infinite set of variables just on the one topic of RTFM....
I'm happy to be able to type RTFM at least once without fear of a warning
So I typed it twice just because....
It just irks me when I see a poster complaining to me that I'm a crap bag for telling them to go back to
Windows where they belong, or a damned keyboard jockey because I have more than a certain number of posts
in this forum.. Or even telling me that I've read the manual but it didn't make any sense so I posted here instead..
But that poster obviously didn't understand the instructions I also left in the post to test mount options one by one while checking for mount errors... Eventually it maybe discovered that ext3 doesn't support those mount options.. Oh Well...
I really didn't feel it was worth my time to double check the mount man and
hold the poster hand....
The poster must have not agreed..
Some people think this forum is an integral part of the debian experience, others I'm guessing would like this forum turned into a completely different venue.. [No:Fud]
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-14 23:14
by mzilikazi
llivv wrote:
I'm happy to be able to type RTFM at least once without fear of a warning
At the risk of straying off topic.....I think RTFM is OK sometimes as long as you point to the FM just as Bro.Tiag did in response to the OP.
In other words,
Read THIS fine manual. Another way to say RTFM might be:
or a link to a guide or forum post that contains the answer.
I really didn't feel it was worth my time to double check the mount man and hold the poster hand....
Of course you are not obligated to do so....unless you like to hold hands.
As for 'What's a real Debian user?"
Answer: Someone who uses Debian
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-14 23:34
by llivv
mzilikazi wrote:llivv wrote:I really didn't feel it was worth my time to double check the mount man and hold the poster hand....
Of course you are not obligated to do so....unless you like to hold hands.
As for 'What's a real Debian user?"
Answer: Someone who uses Debian
100% real debian? Or do the fake debains' (less than 100% debain all the way to 0% debain) count as real debain too?
I tried to make that sound as humble as possible..... I may have fail badly....
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 03:10
by mzilikazi
llivv wrote:
100% real debian? Or do the fake debains' (less than 100% debain all the way to 0% debain) count as real debain too?
Please define 100% Debian. If you add Debian multimedia to your fresh Debian installation is that still 100% Debian? If you compile and install something from non-Debianized source are you still running 100% Debian? While I don't think that anyone would argue that Tinycore Linux is Debian it's not too far fetched to see why someone (especially new users) might think that Ubuntu = Debian.
I tried to make that sound as humble as possible..... I may have fail badly....
You've hit on one of the issues surrounding communication that is anything but face to face. The reader doesn't have the luxury of seeing your facial expressions or body language or hearing your tone of voice (or anything else for that matter), there are only your words (forever to be seen I might add). One cannot assume you are being rude, mean, humble or anything else unless it can be read in your words. Those silly emoticons go some limited distance toward alleviating that issue. I use em'.
Personally, I didn't take anything you said as offensive in any way and wouldn't have even broached the subject if you had not. Thanks for bringing it up.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 04:49
by mzilikazi
mharrison wrote:I don't get how this thread is still open. With a name like Ubuntutoo and the nature of the original post
I don't see how the username has any bearing on anything really unless perhaps it's something offensive. In this case, I read "Ubuntu too" to mean "I run some OS and Ubuntu as well"
Mr James wrote:Now you get the reason for my sarcastic reply in the other thread: the massive influx of Ubuntu users coming here trying to a) post how satisfied they are with Ubuntu,
If that's truly all they have to say then it should be in offtopic.
Mr James wrote:..... post help requests on getting Debian to act like Ubuntu
What's so wrong with that? What if Benevolent Dictator For Life Patrick Volkerding came in and asked "How does Debian do this and that...?"? Would you begrudge him an answer because you know he's running Slackware?
Were I to snarl at the OP, then the thread would get closed and I would get a warning.
Why would you snarl? That makes me question your motivation for being here.
If I may, I'd like to paraphrase something I read in the forum just a little while ago that sums up exactly why I'm here.
"We are here to learn and have fun and if we can help another poor soul"
Hmm who was that quote from me wonders .....?
And no....a response from one individual shouldn't get a thread closed.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 11:41
by Mr James
mzilikazi wrote:
What's so wrong with that? What if Benevolent Dictator For Life Patrick Volkerding came in and asked "How does Debian do this and that...?"? Would you begrudge him an answer because you know he's running Slackware?
Did he ever? No.
mzilikazi wrote:
Why would you snarl? That makes me question your motivation for being here.
Snarling at someone telling you, at the Debian forums of all places,
There are three reasons why I prefer Ubuntu to Debian.
1. Better font rendering.
2. Support for Asian characters out of the box.
3. They have a design team.
All three could be addressed in Debian, easily I'm sure. But I don't want to, nor should I have to, considering there's a distro that's 98% Debian with these tweaks added on.
is quite alright in my eyes. Because what the hell is a guy with this mind set using Debian for? Use Ubuntu and it's forums.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 11:51
by Globetrotter
Please define 100% Debian. If you add Debian multimedia to your fresh Debian installation is that still 100% Debian? If you compile and install something from non-Debianized source are you still running 100% Debian?
Very true!! At the moment Debian is installed, then you're running 100% Debian. Every change of packages after the installation, which is
NOT in the standard repository, results in no longer 100% Debian. If you want 100% Debian, stay with the original Debian packages and do not alter them.
What's so wrong with that? What if Benevolent Dictator For Life Patrick Volkerding came in and asked "How does Debian do this and that...?"? Would you begrudge him an answer because you know he's running Slackware?
Did he ever? No.
But when he do it? When he comes to this forum asking 1 or 2 things about Debian. Will you then hold some grudge against him or will you help him in any way you can. That's the question here. Not if he already had been on this great forum.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 12:29
by TobiSGD
Globetrotter wrote:But when he do it? When he comes to this forum asking 1 or 2 things about Debian. Will you then hold some grudge against him or will you help him in any way you can. That's the question here. Not if he already had been on this great forum.
The point is not if anyone asks how things are done in Debian. The point is when people come here and complain whx it is not like in a different distro. If Patrick Volkerding would come here and asks things like: Why doesn't it work out of the box, in Slackware it does, why can't Debian be so simple, then I also would say: If you like Slackware, go for Slackware, there is no point in using Debian for you.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 12:38
by Globetrotter
TobiSGD wrote:The point is not if anyone asks how things are done in Debian. The point is when people come here and complain whx it is not like in a different distro. If Patrick Volkerding would come here and asks things like: Why doesn't it work out of the box, in Slackware it does, why can't Debian be so simple, then I also would say: If you like Slackware, go for Slackware, there is no point in using Debian for you.
True,
but on the othe rhand, he migth ask such questions to find out the difference between Debian and Slackware. But then again, set up a VM and install Debian in a VM environment. Great for experimenting!
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 14:46
by jheaton5
And what would happen if he had red hair?
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 14:47
by Bro.Tiag
jheaton5 wrote:And what would happen if he had red hair?
dope slap the ginger.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 15:19
by confuseling
TobiSGD wrote:Globetrotter wrote:But when he do it? When he comes to this forum asking 1 or 2 things about Debian. Will you then hold some grudge against him or will you help him in any way you can. That's the question here. Not if he already had been on this great forum.
The point is not if anyone asks how things are done in Debian. The point is when people come here and complain whx it is not like in a different distro. If Patrick Volkerding would come here and asks things like: Why doesn't it work out of the box, in Slackware it does, why can't Debian be so simple, then I also would say: If you like Slackware, go for Slackware, there is no point in using Debian for you.
This is very true. And a large part of the problem, for me at least, on this forum, is the self-appointed guardians of the Debian creed (most of them, it seems, quite new) snapping at anybody who mentions Ubuntu at all.
If someone says "I did this on Ubuntu like this, and it was good, and I'd like it to work on Debian too", what the heck is the problem? If they don't accept the sometimes quite legitimate reply "Things don't work quite like that on Debian", then fine, flame away. But don't assume that everyone is a troll just because they've mentioned *the distro that shall not be named*, because frankly it's childish and tedious.
/soapbox
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 15:32
by Mr James
confuseling wrote:the self-appointed guardians of the Debian creed (most of them, it seems, quite new)
Yes, people like Soul Singin', MeanDean, Julien, llivv, jheaton5, and Bro.Tiag are all new members here and complete noobs. They have no right to make any remarks about the forum whatsoever.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 15:42
by AMLJ
confuseling wrote:the self-appointed guardians of the Debian creed (most of them, it seems, quite new)
Ridiculous, and sad...
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 15:44
by confuseling
I didn't name any of them as 'the self-appointed guardians of the Debian creed' - who I thought it was self-evident were by definition not the respected members. I don't even know why I'm bothering to type that. I hope you enjoy your new forum.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 16:21
by Mr James
confuseling wrote:I didn't name any of them as 'the self-appointed guardians of the Debian creed' - who I thought it was self-evident were by definition not the respected members. I don't even know why I'm bothering to type that. I hope you enjoy your new forum.
You did say "them" as in more than one, and "them" are the ones I mentioned, and "them" are the ones over there.
If you are referring to me, yeah, I'm new but I never made myself a "self-appointed guardians of the Debian creed". I snap at people who tell me they prefer Ubuntu and how Ubuntu is so much better
in this place.
So go bother somebody else.
Re: Official debian forums real debain user
Posted: 2011-02-15 21:34
by llivv
I think the analogy I'm having difficultly with is the comparison of Patrick and Mark..()
Patricks BDFL dictatorship is 0% Debian... Marks SABDFL dictatorship is different and his OS is 50% Debian at best...
I think any newb/noob that posts to the debain forum thinking that ubuntu is debian should be corrected forthwtih..
And if they complain about the way they are treated when being corrected ( you know who you are) they should be assigned an appropriate label, until they demonstrated an satisfactory understanding of definition of "What is Debain?"
If you read enough bug submitted to the debian BTS that include such idiotic statements as.
"I'm using liquorix kernel but the same thing happens with the latest sid kernel ( notice no version is mentioned by the person reporting the bug and no debian kernel version get picked up by the bug script either, obviously)
you begin to understand what Debian is and what debian is not..
And you have to ask yourself why do I think the debian teams should be responsible for helping to maintain non debain kernels,
OOT kernel modules that have no debian maintainer for that module or set of modules, and untimely wishlist bugs that are tagged as severe or important because a non debian devel has a release date to meet. ( just one obnoxious example).....
Furthermore, when multimedia and backport repos are officially supported as debian packages that is when I will consider them as part of a 100% debian box, not until....
One might even start to think that Mark has been to this forum and has complained to debian forum admin about the way ( non debian) questions (have been traditionally, are presently treated) in the debian forum....