Censorship on this board

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Censorship on this board

Postby sossego » 2011-07-22 21:22

Private messages on this board have been disabled for quite some time. While the moderators and administrators perceive this as a means of controlling and preventing retaliation, it also prevents members from having personal conversations with one another.
If you want your conversations to remain private, I suggest that you join http://www.debianuserforums.org .

If this post is removed, censored, negatively questioned, or otherwise then you know the administrative staff needs to be replaced.
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby craigevil » 2011-07-22 21:46

Since when has private messaging been disabled? Some of us have it turned off, but forum wide it still works. I have pretty much given up on moderating, people bitch and whine no matter how bad the post was that you edit.

This forum still gets more spam and nonsense posts than any forum I have even been on.

So feel free to continue to post the useless drivel that is considered the norm around here.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby vbrummond » 2011-07-22 22:27

^ Yeah pretty much. :(
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby sossego » 2011-07-23 00:12

craigevil wrote:Since when has private messaging been disabled? Some of us have it turned off, but forum wide it still works. I have pretty much given up on moderating, people bitch and whine no matter how bad the post was that you edit.

This forum still gets more spam and nonsense posts than any forum I have even been on.

So feel free to continue to post the useless drivel that is considered the norm around here.


Funny how you you refuse instant messages and how until today I was not able to send any private messages and then only to my own account.


Why not step down from your position if you have given up on moderating?
The useless drivel includes all posts.
search.php?search_id=unanswered Like these
search.php?search_id=active_topics or these to be exact.

I see that you yourself like to bitch and whine as much as the others do. Would you be considered an arsehole, jackass, or hypocrite for doing such? I'll let you answer that question.
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby sgosnell » 2011-07-23 06:00

If this post is removed, censored, negatively questioned, or otherwise then you know the administrative staff needs to be replaced.
If it were removed, how would one know? :roll:
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby sossego » 2011-07-23 23:16

My private messaging works again now for some.

Why not create a sub-forum for questionable posts or threads instead of just deleting them? This would allow a member enough time to edit an entry that others may have found objectionable.
Another sub-forum could be created to solve disputes and thus would remove such from the public view.

Oxun!! Such an idea would be ridiculed and ignored.
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Polaris96 » 2011-07-29 13:05

<$ALL

Listen up kiddies! Debian User Forums has been, IMO, one of the most tolerant and benevolent environments to work. It's true that the focus is steered primarily towards constructive (one might even say "enabling") input. That can be annoying, but please bear in mind the moderators have to keep some sense of order and respect between us. They make some fairly tough calls, and, if you think they're being overly draconian about applying forum rules, take a minute to consider they probably have good reasons based on past experience of what happens when little feuds are allowed to become forum wars (Europe, 1938, anybody?). So have a heart, because they do, in fact, have one also.

...that said


<$THE-STAFF

What the HELL have you all been doing? I leave the country for a few months on business and the board turns upside down! Where are half of my esteemed friends and colleagues? They walked off in a huff because you couldn't manage the situation and gently release the pressure inside this forum.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is flat out unacceptable. You let some extremely knowledgable, talented, creative, and prolific individuals walk from the forum over a debate about freedom of expression. Are you insane? The very people you antagonized were the ones that make this board what it is. Are there still smart people here? Yes, there are. But, they remained in tolerance of you. You allowed yourselves to become the focus of debate. That's a bad management model. take it from a manager and entrepreneur - It's ok to be tolerant of your talents' idiosyncracies.

Many people have opined (and I've come to agree strongly with them) that talented people are screwy by nature. Is anybody reading this surprised that the guys who could scribble the kernel in C code on their bedroom wall are wrapped a little tightly?

Moderators, it's your job to keep these people here, not draw lines in the sand and push them over. Such a practice weakens the forum. This is a classic mistake. Mid sized companies tend to fizzle at about the 15year mark. New managers think that self promotion and glossy leaflets from the PR dept will improve their "team Spirit" and "synergy". They're wrong. Statistics show. Google it.

The classic rebuttal, "The world's full of talented people," is only true on the face. Talented people know that we are. If you create an unpleasant environment, you're going to lose any hope of rettaining talent and establishing continuity of support. If we're playing on the "modern" field, feel free to spice this paragraph with words like "synergy," "team building," and "Proactive management." Bottom line, if you don't resolve incidents constructively, you'd better plan on dealing with them again in the future.

You need to court talented people. Buy them flowers and tolerate their ranting to nth degree. ( :p ). I've spent the last week on irc trying to entice a few of them back to the forum. I hope this doesn't displease you. We want these people. They're ones who wrote the posts in "how to" that get the most hits. I tread fearlessly on holy ground when I state, "You wouldn't have dragged out the nightsticks and teargas if RickH were here."

This board has, historically, been a DMZ. A safe haven for those fleeing Moderatorial repression in other forums. That's why the real talent clusters here. It's an assett. Recognize this and prop it for all you're worth.

So, please, in the future, divert the energy. Don't bluster and confront it. I know some of you well and I respect all of you. For the love of all that's holy, though, act in our best interest. Keep talent in the forum.

Believe me, I know this from experience, it will not undermine your respect to bend a little for a screwball. It puts you immediately on the ethical highground and the "regular people" will see that you're humouring a wacky personality. Try it next time, please.



Polaris96 CLEAR

EOF
for as long as the world remains. for as long as time remains. so, too, will I remain. To serve. To help. And to make my contribution. Also, never forget our family at debianuserforums.org If we can't solve your problem, they probably can.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby sossego » 2011-07-29 13:41

Polaris96 wrote:<$ALL

Listen up kiddies! Debian User Forums has been, IMO, one of the most tolerant and benevolent environments to work. It's true that the focus is steered primarily towards constructive (one might even say "enabling") input. That can be annoying, but please bear in mind the moderators have to keep some sense of order and respect between us. They make some fairly tough calls, and, if you think they're being overly draconian about applying forum rules, take a minute to consider they probably have good reasons based on past experience of what happens when little feuds are allowed to become forum wars (Europe, 1938, anybody?). So have a heart, because they do, in fact, have one also.

...that said


<$THE-STAFF

What the HELL have you all been doing? I leave the country for a few months on business and the board turns upside down! Where are half of my esteemed friends and colleagues? They walked off in a huff because you couldn't manage the situation and gently release the pressure inside this forum.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is flat out unacceptable. You let some extremely knowledgable, talented, creative, and prolific individuals walk from the forum over a debate about freedom of expression. Are you insane? The very people you antagonized were the ones that make this board what it is. Are there still smart people here? Yes, there are. But, they remained in tolerance of you. You allowed yourselves to become the focus of debate. That's a bad management model. take it from a manager and entrepreneur - It's ok to be tolerant of your talents' idiosyncracies.

Many people have opined (and I've come to agree strongly with them) that talented people are screwy by nature. Is anybody reading this surprised that the guys who could scribble the kernel in C code on their bedroom wall are wrapped a little tightly?

Moderators, it's your job to keep these people here, not draw lines in the sand and push them over. Such a practice weakens the forum. This is a classic mistake. Mid sized companies tend to fizzle at about the 15year mark. New managers think that self promotion and glossy leaflets from the PR dept will improve their "team Spirit" and "synergy". They're wrong. Statistics show. Google it.

The classic rebuttal, "The world's full of talented people," is only true on the face. Talented people know that we are. If you create an unpleasant environment, you're going to lose any hope of rettaining talent and establishing continuity of support. If we're playing on the "modern" field, feel free to spice this paragraph with words like "synergy," "team building," and "Proactive management." Bottom line, if you don't resolve incidents constructively, you'd better plan on dealing with them again in the future.

You need to court talented people. Buy them flowers and tolerate their ranting to nth degree. ( :p ). I've spent the last week on irc trying to entice a few of them back to the forum. I hope this doesn't displease you. We want these people. They're ones who wrote the posts in "how to" that get the most hits. I tread fearlessly on holy ground when I state, "You wouldn't have dragged out the nightsticks and teargas if RickH were here."

This board has, historically, been a DMZ. A safe haven for those fleeing Moderatorial repression in other forums. That's why the real talent clusters here. It's an assett. Recognize this and prop it for all you're worth.

So, please, in the future, divert the energy. Don't bluster and confront it. I know some of you well and I respect all of you. For the love of all that's holy, though, act in our best interest. Keep talent in the forum.

Believe me, I know this from experience, it will not undermine your respect to bend a little for a screwball. It puts you immediately on the ethical highground and the "regular people" will see that you're humouring a wacky personality. Try it next time, please.



Polaris96 CLEAR

EOF


This quote has been approved by screwballs everywhere.

Actually, I'm quite impressed by it.
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Polaris96 » 2011-07-29 15:39

Thank you, sir.

Let me say, I don't want to rip the scab off. I've said my piece and I want to move forward.

For anybody that cares, I'm going to continue attempting to bring back those that left. I miss them. We will be stronger when they return.

If any will come home, please treat them like the returning friends and family they are.

I was reminded by an old friend, yesterday, of a quote I dropped on this forum about a year and a half ago. It goes, "This Is Debian. WE get to draw on the walls and ride tricycles down the hallways when we're not busy fixing bugs, rewriting the kernel, or making sure the toilets continue to flush in Linuxworld..."

It was well recieved at the time and I'm not above graciously nodding, grandstanding, and patting myself vigourously on the back. I didn't make it up, though. It's a paraphrased statement about the antics that went on in the 1970s at a xerox research facility nicknamed, "the dreamworks".

What came out of there? The GUI, amongst other things (No, Mr. Jobs, you didn't invent it. Do the words, "Small Talk" ring a bell?) Do a search for the whole story. It's a good read. But Dreamworks ended in tragedy.

The reason? Management couldn't deal with the idea of paid employees riding tricycles down the hallways on company time. They rode in and made things "shipshape". And innovation went out the back door along with the talent. Am I describing our current debacle? Ponder it. Let's learn from the past.

There's a lot of work to be done by ALL of us, members and moderators alike. Let's put humpty dumpty back together. Who other than us are capable of it? Nobody.

I am now, personally, eating a giant slice of humble pie for ranting like this. I haven't heard from any moderators, but if they slap me for ranting they won't be incorrect. I am ranting. This rant, like many others that have appeared in the forum, serves a productive purpose, though. Please consider the rantings of other giant egos and judge what I say only after a beer and a re-read.

We all screw up. It's part of being human. What separates the wheat from the chaff is how we handle the cleanup. The wheat should be here. ALL of it. Let's go sweep it up and put it back in the silo where it belongs.


...and, could somebody explain why I can't send any PMs from my profile CP? Nobody's more surprised than I at that one :)
for as long as the world remains. for as long as time remains. so, too, will I remain. To serve. To help. And to make my contribution. Also, never forget our family at debianuserforums.org If we can't solve your problem, they probably can.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Telemachus » 2011-07-29 16:17

Polaris96 wrote:...and, could somebody explain why I can't send any PMs from my profile CP? Nobody's more surprised than I at that one :)

I wonder whether some admin/mod accidentally turned it off? (Absolutely no sarcasm there.) It sounds like you're having the same issue that Sossego was. You might try emailing admin@forums.debian.net (per here). Also, I just sent you a message via pm. See if you can receive it.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby saulgoode » 2011-07-29 16:21

Polaris96 wrote:...and, could somebody explain why I can't send any PMs from my profile CP? Nobody's more surprised than I at that one :)

You don't have a "Compose Message" option?

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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby sgosnell » 2011-07-29 16:43

:?: Dunno. I can click on the User Control Panel link, then the Private Messages tab, and a compose page loads, ready to fill in. It does look different than the one posted by saulgoode, and I don't know why.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby saulgoode » 2011-07-29 16:55

sgosnell wrote::?: Dunno. I can click on the User Control Panel link, then the Private Messages tab, and a compose page loads, ready to fill in. It does look different than the one posted by saulgoode, and I don't know why.

What you describe is the behavior I experience -- entering the Private Messages section by default places you on the Compose message page. However, I was thinking it wouldn't be very helpful to show a screenshot of that should Polaris96 not be seeing the Compose message option (so I chose to display the menu as presented within the Inbox).
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby nadir » 2011-07-29 17:02

Polaris96 wrote:<$ALL

Listen up kiddies! Debian User Forums has been, IMO, one of the most tolerant and benevolent environments to work. It's true that the focus is steered primarily towards constructive (one might even say "enabling") input. That can be annoying, but please bear in mind the moderators have to keep some sense of order and respect between us. They make some fairly tough calls, and, if you think they're being overly draconian about applying forum rules, take a minute to consider they probably have good reasons based on past experience of what happens when little feuds are allowed to become forum wars (Europe, 1938, anybody?). So have a heart, because they do, in fact, have one also.

...that said


<$THE-STAFF

What the HELL have you all been doing? I leave the country for a few months on business and the board turns upside down! Where are half of my esteemed friends and colleagues? They walked off in a huff because you couldn't manage the situation and gently release the pressure inside this forum.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is flat out unacceptable. You let some extremely knowledgable, talented, creative, and prolific individuals walk from the forum over a debate about freedom of expression. Are you insane? The very people you antagonized were the ones that make this board what it is. Are there still smart people here? Yes, there are. But, they remained in tolerance of you. You allowed yourselves to become the focus of debate. That's a bad management model. take it from a manager and entrepreneur - It's ok to be tolerant of your talents' idiosyncracies.

Many people have opined (and I've come to agree strongly with them) that talented people are screwy by nature. Is anybody reading this surprised that the guys who could scribble the kernel in C code on their bedroom wall are wrapped a little tightly?

Moderators, it's your job to keep these people here, not draw lines in the sand and push them over. Such a practice weakens the forum. This is a classic mistake. Mid sized companies tend to fizzle at about the 15year mark. New managers think that self promotion and glossy leaflets from the PR dept will improve their "team Spirit" and "synergy". They're wrong. Statistics show. Google it.

The classic rebuttal, "The world's full of talented people," is only true on the face. Talented people know that we are. If you create an unpleasant environment, you're going to lose any hope of rettaining talent and establishing continuity of support. If we're playing on the "modern" field, feel free to spice this paragraph with words like "synergy," "team building," and "Proactive management." Bottom line, if you don't resolve incidents constructively, you'd better plan on dealing with them again in the future.

You need to court talented people. Buy them flowers and tolerate their ranting to nth degree. ( :p ). I've spent the last week on irc trying to entice a few of them back to the forum. I hope this doesn't displease you. We want these people. They're ones who wrote the posts in "how to" that get the most hits. I tread fearlessly on holy ground when I state, "You wouldn't have dragged out the nightsticks and teargas if RickH were here."

This board has, historically, been a DMZ. A safe haven for those fleeing Moderatorial repression in other forums. That's why the real talent clusters here. It's an assett. Recognize this and prop it for all you're worth.

So, please, in the future, divert the energy. Don't bluster and confront it. I know some of you well and I respect all of you. For the love of all that's holy, though, act in our best interest. Keep talent in the forum.

Believe me, I know this from experience, it will not undermine your respect to bend a little for a screwball. It puts you immediately on the ethical highground and the "regular people" will see that you're humouring a wacky personality. Try it next time, please.



Polaris96 CLEAR

EOF

Its a shame. Check the active posts, read some posts. Go to google, search for any problem, and pick a thread one or two years old.

They should step back altogether
(including the ones who made exactly one post "hi, i am another new admin, let me know what i can do").
They have failed miserably.
And, whats more sad, that it needs to be said. Its obvious.
Where are they anyway?

@Polaris: i am quite sure that a lot of those who left will not come back (and that are the ones who know what they talk about).
Not sure where they are.
As for a save haven, a forum in the spirit of free software and the debian guidelines, like i said, you might try debianuserforums.org.
This forum is lost.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby smallchange » 2011-07-29 17:32

nadir wrote:This forum is lost.


This may be true but it does not need to be. This argument, like every argument, was not one sided. This forum can still be a good forum but it will take effort, including the restraint of righteous indignation by everyone. The question is does anyone care? Would people prefer to have a good forum or their righteous indignation?
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