Censorship on this board

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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Polaris96 » 2011-07-29 17:46

@SaulGoode

No, sir, I certainly do have a "Compose Message" option. The issue involved sent messages hanging in the outqueue instead of making their natural way to the "Sent Messages" queue. Thank you for asking, though.


@Telemachus

Things seem to be unstuck now. Thanks again for your help.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby nadir » 2011-07-29 18:03

smallchange wrote:
nadir wrote:This forum is lost.


This may be true but it does not need to be. This argument, like every argument, was not one sided. This forum can still be a good forum but it will take effort, including the restraint of righteous indignation by everyone. The question is does anyone care? Would people prefer to have a good forum or their righteous indignation?

What i wanted to say with "This forum is lost" _is_ that right now no one seems to care much. Also in my eyes, and for what i want. A lot seem to like the new style.
What i don't want is moderators to edit my posts (or the ones of anyone else). I got an email, i got pm, one can ask me, and i sure would change it or remove it altogether.
What i don't want is being asked something, if the answer is already clear ("you want a beginners forum yes or no?".... "it is done")
In short: i did care, and i cared a lot. I am tired of it now.
The ones who have turned a lot of people away can show what they are up to.
See my first sentence for that: no one seems to care much (anymore). Fin du siecle.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby saulgoode » 2011-07-29 19:02

Polaris96 wrote:@SaulGoode

No, sir, I certainly do have a "Compose Message" option. The issue involved sent messages hanging in the outqueue instead of making their natural way to the "Sent Messages" queue.

That just means that the person to whom you sent the private message has not yet read it (once read, it will move from your Outbox folder to the Sent folder). If a message languishes too long in your Outbox folder, you might check the recipient's activity on the boards of late and see whether they've logged in recently (in which case they may be ignoring you); perhaps they've just not had occasion to visit the forums. You can instruct yourself further upon the intricacies of PHPBB's private messaging system by reviewing this fine manual.
Polaris96 wrote:Thank you for asking, though.

Thank you for answering.
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -- Brian Kernighan
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Polaris96 » 2011-07-29 20:47

We're lucky to have such publications and I'll certainly peruse it when practicable. Regrettably, the pace of my day dictates a more heueristic approach. "Fake it till you make it," one might say colloquially.
for as long as the world remains. for as long as time remains. so, too, will I remain. To serve. To help. And to make my contribution. Also, never forget our family at debianuserforums.org If we can't solve your problem, they probably can.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Polaris96 » 2011-07-29 21:16

@nadir, smallchange

ah, the trickles that seem insignifigant, yet roll on and grow and merge, forming at last the sacred Ganges. And who can stop the Ganges?

Listen, guys. From what I'm seeing with my whopping 7 days back in the forum is not terribly different from when I had to leave for awhile. The only glaring difference I see is the absence of so many dear friends and valuable assetts.

I don't and won't dispute that many posts were hacked up. As with most violent scenarios, they probably went overboard on sheer bloodlust. It happens to everyone, and they could take the opposing viewpoint, that the whiners went bananas (how the hell do you spell banananananananas?) overboard with bile, invective, and unnecessarily hurtful criticism. You'd both be right (smallchange, I salute you, brother).

But the dust has settled. As I recently wrote in our sister forum debianuserforums.org (note deliberate use of large font to beat the reader over the head) The wounds are scabbed. The dust has settled. We had a righteous donnybrook and pounded seven kinds of hell out of one another.

This, in itself, proves we're a family, and that we all give a crap about product. Let's start FORGIVING. That requires an absence of "Only if blahblablah bladybladyblah" on everyone's part AND a feathertouch on the moderators' end. Let's all give it a shot.

My goal at this point is see the two sites link one another. I'm starting to think we could model our forums on a production facility: front office where we need to be nice to guests and shop where the management probably shouldn't look too hard if they want profits to keep skying. Everybody can have their comfort zone. Both parties give a little. Both acknowledge the other side as a valued commodity. It's not much but it's a start. I do have a day job, too, after all.


BTW I'm pretty good :) already two of old troopers have surfaced. Keep coming everybody! Tell me what I'm doing wrong and I'll eat it but keep coming :p
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby dmhdlr » 2011-07-30 04:19

I thought debianuserforums.org was just a mirror?? :?:
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Polaris96 » 2011-07-31 13:48

Life is a mirror.
for as long as the world remains. for as long as time remains. so, too, will I remain. To serve. To help. And to make my contribution. Also, never forget our family at debianuserforums.org If we can't solve your problem, they probably can.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby sossego » 2011-07-31 16:37

Saint Paul or Charles Dodgson?
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Polaris96 » 2011-07-31 16:43

Chandra Kirti, or, perhaps laotse
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby sossego » 2011-07-31 18:44

To paraphrase Paul, "God is a mirror."

But no, Deckard, the other forum was set up as an alternative. It is a good place to vent frustrations without worry- or, I should say, "Too much worry, that is."
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby nadir » 2011-07-31 19:30

sossego wrote:To paraphrase Paul, "God is a mirror."

But no, Deckard, the other forum was set up as an alternative. It is a good place to vent frustrations without worry- or, I should say, "Too much worry, that is."

Sorry, but that is not correct, as far i can tell.
It was not created to vent frustrations.
Some here, mods/admins/users, said that the owner of a side makes the rules, and that one has got to live with the rules the way they are.
Saying was that there is no need to discuss that question (that the owner makes the rules, and all have to swallow it, or go away).
Some were banned (for a short time) for no reason. Posts were edited by mods, lots of strange posts by users. Etc. i keep it, the ugly part, short.
If the owner of a site makes the rules, the natural approach is to be the owner oneself.
Who is the owner there? The users.
That means that the ones who are there and who use the forum make the rules, and i think that makes sense.
That is the idea.

Side note: If it will work there or will not work there is not the question.
I think in the spirit of free software and community and such the general idea is a)good and b)logical.
The way most free-software forums are now is not good (some decide, most have to obey silently)
For something like that i will fight (or simply use mailing-lists and IRC instead)
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby sossego » 2011-07-31 22:13

Did I state that the forum was created to vent frustrations or did I state it is a good place to vent frustrations? My perception and reason for stating such never reflected nor was intended to reflect the origins of the other forum.

One of the initial premises was members here deciding to create their own forum in order to be more libertine with their posts. Many were venting their frustrations- look at the content of a few of the earlier posts- until the general concordance was to be more mature and let the forum develop on its own.
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Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby nadir » 2011-07-31 22:42

sossego wrote:
One of the initial premises was members here deciding to create their own forum in order to be more libertine with their posts. Many were venting their frustrations- look at the content of a few of the earlier posts- until the general concordance was to be more mature and let the forum develop on its own.

I did look at the content of the earlier posts (right now). I don't agree. There have been lots of other problems (how to do what).
At that time it was pretty ugly here (people posted lots of rather pointless pictures, avatars where changed, signatures were made to take back the ban of cynwulf, etc).
There have been ways to vent frustration here. That was not the main purpose of the other forum and, like said, there was no need for more ways to do that. From the very beginning the idea was to get rid of moderators (and that is a development of its own).

I see that you did not exaclty say that, "that place was created to vent frustrations", but it might sound like that for some ears.
If one is frustrated somewhere the right place to deal with it is the place where it has taken place.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby Polaris96 » 2011-08-01 12:42

nadir wrote:
sossego wrote:
One of the initial premises was members here deciding to create their own forum in order to be more libertine with their posts. Many were venting their frustrations- look at the content of a few of the earlier posts- until the general concordance was to be more mature and let the forum develop on its own.

I did look at the content of the earlier posts (right now). I don't agree. There have been lots of other problems (how to do what).
At that time it was pretty ugly here (people posted lots of rather pointless pictures, avatars where changed, signatures were made to take back the ban of cynwulf, etc).
There have been ways to vent frustration here. That was not the main purpose of the other forum and, like said, there was no need for more ways to do that. From the very beginning the idea was to get rid of moderators (and that is a development of its own).

I see that you did not exaclty say that, "that place was created to vent frustrations", but it might sound like that for some ears.
If one is frustrated somewhere the right place to deal with it is the place where it has taken place.



@sossego

I'm sorry but you're incorrect in that statement. This was always an extremely libertine forum. I must admit I don't see the ubuntuescque Stalinism from the moderators. But any interested party can poke around the archives and validate my last statement. Wild rhetoric and harangues are intrinsic to this forum. As is wild innovation and enterprise level knowledge.

Both appear to be gone now.

If you had a real problem, the kind that gets batted around endlessly in most forums, you would normally get 3 or more viable answers, here. Not so much anymore. The other forum will give you the right answer and tell you to eat their shorts as they do it.

This, by the way, happened to me once, here. The gentleman who insisted I do so is both insanely intelligent and insanely belligerant. We had a short confrontation over it, and, now, we're friends and I profit immensely from his input.

We should be referring the cases we can't solve to that board. This is a nice place, with well kept lawns and picket fences. People here are smart and polite and that's fine, I guess. But being smart and polite is not what generated this forum's reputation. Most of of our new members (feel free to weigh in you disagree on this one) came from other distros. Very very few people take on Debian as a first distro. (I came straight out of UNIX and I didn't)

Occasionally, they wound up here after either becoming disillusioned with the (white picket fence and 2.5 children + 1 dog)distro they were using. More often, though, they were fine with their old distro, but decided to go debian after solving their problems, here. This was good for debian and Excellent for this forum. And it's not happening much, now.

I offer the following as a simple experiment for anyone on the fence in this matter:

Go to the "how-to" section of this board and start looking at authors. Pay particular attention to the abstraction of the topic and the numbers of views. Note down the most prolific of them.

Then, go to the other forum (the address is listed below) and see how many of them are There now. This will become a problem. If a separate peace is required, we should really start thinking about a formal affiliation. Right now, the only thing this forum has is a link on Debian.org. That goes away, we're just another plain vanilla lin forum.

Link with them and we're back in the ferrari.


Let me summarize for (and sympathize with) those that fell asleep :)

First, it wasn't the other forum that split off to change. THIS forum, apparently, changed. They're acting the regular way on the other forum.

Second, liberty and innovation go hand in hand. If you want rockstars you'd better be prepared to tolerate rockstar egos. And, yes, many of them DO live in their parents' garages, so I don't feel inferior saying they're rockstars. They're a rescource and we're squandering them over a childish tantrum between children (the Lingurus) and parents who can't manage their children (Moderators). Make no mistake, this IS a family argument. The family should be together, or at the very least, on cordial terms.

Third, try the experiment. When you come to the your conclusion, JOIN the other forum (don't leave this one. This is home. We need both halves to be whole.). Hang around there sometimes and get to know the people. You'll see what I'm talking about.
for as long as the world remains. for as long as time remains. so, too, will I remain. To serve. To help. And to make my contribution. Also, never forget our family at debianuserforums.org If we can't solve your problem, they probably can.
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Re: Censorship on this board

Postby fatmac » 2011-09-21 07:51

Don't know if anyone will see this as the posts here are pretty old, but:-

It seems to me, a newcomer to forums, that it would be better to have everyone onboard just ONE FORUM.

Fragmentation weakens. :!:
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