Re: Please get a handle on the spammers!
Posted: 2011-09-06 20:19
Why did you remove your post...?old_duffer wrote:nvm
Why did you remove your post...?old_duffer wrote:nvm
Probably because the mystery poster realized it was a waste of his time to try to offer any solution to the current regime. After all, I doubt he's a Debian member- which makes his suggestions completely irrelevant anyway.eric1959 wrote:Why did you remove your post...?old_duffer wrote:nvm
and yes, like traveler said: the pity is that it really doesn't matter what one says.old_duffer wrote:There is another viable option - offering the site to a consortium of members on the condition that they move it off the debian.net servers and domain. forum.debian.net can then function as a redirect to the new domain/server - or would that also be out of the question?mzilikazi wrote:Sadly, there is no one with the time or ambition to take on the responsibility of making those changes at the server. The 'position' is open but the only individuals that would be considered must have Debian membership.
Personally I think that's a far better option than continuing with the current situation of the site being administered by people who clearly don't want to do it and have no real interest in doing it. This was a great site once and it's sad to see it's decline and decay being brought about by simple apathy and mismanagement. If you prefer to sit and watch it rot rather than do something about it - then you're only an admin in name and nothing more.
The current "red" admins here do not participate on this site and thus do not really care about it's future either way, this has been obvious to many of us for a long time now. While this might seem trivial to a debian developer or maintainer to those that use the forums it's a very different story - this site has been an invaluable resource to many. For many years it simply worked as it was...
The spam situation has only been out of control since about march when the admins decided to give up the goat on this place... the moderators and spam hunters have obviously been doing their best to delete the spam, but without active admins to actually sit down and delete the bot accounts and implement improved spam busting software (all entirely possible by the way) they are fighting a losing battle as the bots keep on returning. This must be soul destroying for the mods and spam hunters - it's clearly had an effect on them and an effect on the board and it's members as a whole.
It seems to me that we have an administration here who did their level best to drive out a certain faction of the user base back in February this year - once they had achieved this end they simply vanished off the radar... so getting rid of those people was worth all of the work, the bans, getting up there on the moral high ground posting lectures, etc? - but when it comes down to deleting spam and just "running a debian board" - there is no one left with neither the "time or ambition" for it...?
After the crap you have put people through here, you should be ashamed.
While I consider it far from pityable, it is a fact of life that people generally place higher regard on what a person does than what he says.nadir wrote:and yes, like traveler said: the pity is that it really doesn't matter what one says.
I do not understand this mentality that the only way one can advance himself comes at the cost of the diminution of others. This forum exists so that users of the Debian distribution of GNU/Linux software can share their experiences and support each other in achieving maximal benefit from using it.nadir wrote:The best i can propose: burn it down to the ground, start fresh. What i see right now is a shame for the OS.
So once again you adopt the same lecturing and patronising stance? Defending the indefensible and standing up for the people in red just because - instead of the users who actually made this place (not those that went to the other forums - all the users). How on earth can members here be judged on "actions" when they are powerless to do anything about these problems? Instead apply your logic and judgements to the people in power here, who could have done something, but instead sat on their hands. The average member can do nothing here to change the state of affairs. This has been made abundantly clear for years.saulgoode wrote:While I consider it far from pityable, it is a fact of life that people generally place higher regard on what a person does than what he says.
Your first sentence is obviously aimed at the people who left and went to the other place - you and some others need to put aside your own prejudices and recognise that they are a drop in the ocean compared to the total sum of the people who actually left.saulgoode wrote:I do not understand this mentality that the only way one can advance himself comes at the cost of the diminution of others. This forum exists so that users of the Debian distribution of GNU/Linux software can share their experiences and support each other in achieving maximal benefit from using it.
Suggestions have been offered. On the previous page BioTube suggested a very effective anti-spam counter-measure which is in use at the other forums. Your admin here won't try it out, because they have neither the "time or ambition" to do so... that doesn't bother you at all? When it comes down to it no one is willing to admit the real source of the spam problem here:saulgoode wrote:If you do not feel this forum is meeting its mandate then by all means offer suggestions on how the situation can be improved. But if the only proposition which you have to offer is "burn it down" then I would submit that you are being overly dismissive of those who do feel that this forum offers, despite its imperfections, a worthwhile service to the Debian community.
In other words put up with the current situation or GTFO? Dispense with the aloof "lawyering" speak... you're interacting with your fellows in this community, you're not perched on a balcony addressing the plebs below.saulgoode wrote:This forum does not lay claim to exclusivity in providing such service -- indeed there are many alternatives available (including the forums at Linux Questions, Linux Forums, Debian Help, and the one in your signature). If you are not gaining satisfaction from your experience in participating in these forums, fine -- but why would you begrudge that option being made available to others who feel differently?
A condescending word of advice: don't add spam bot in your little forum or it would look even more desolated than it already is. Your constant whining is worse than spam. Please get lost like you promised.old_duffer wrote:I will constantly whine like the little twat that I am.
Aha.saulgoode wrote:While I consider it far from pityable, it is a fact of life that people generally place higher regard on what a person does than what he says.nadir wrote:and yes, like traveler said: the pity is that it really doesn't matter what one says.
I have offered suggestions, and more than just a few, and a lot of other people have offered suggestions too. They have been ignored, and the result can be observed daily, by going here: http://forums.debian.net/search.php?sea ... ive_topicsI do not understand this mentality that the only way one can advance himself comes at the cost of the diminution of others. This forum exists so that users of the Debian distribution of GNU/Linux software can share their experiences and support each other in achieving maximal benefit from using it.nadir wrote:The best i can propose: burn it down to the ground, start fresh. What i see right now is a shame for the OS.
If you do not feel this forum is meeting its mandate then by all means offer suggestions on how the situation can be improved. But if the only proposition which you have to offer is "burn it down" then I would submit that you are being overly dismissive of those who feel that this forum offers, despite its imperfections, a worthwhile service to the Debian community.
This forum does not lay claim to exclusivity in providing such service -- indeed there are many alternatives available (including the forums at Linux Questions, Linux Forums, Debian Help, and the one in your signature). If you are not gaining satisfaction from your experience in participating in these forums, fine -- but why would you begrudge that option being made available to others who feel differently?
Well I see the trolls have finally come out to play...pleasevisitmyforum wrote:A condescending word of advice: don't add spam bot in your little forum or it would look even more desolated than it already is. Your constant whining is worse than spam. Please get lost like you promised.
No, you're the anonymous guy, little twat. Why don't you get a Debian membership and maybe we'll hear you out. Go stand in the corner.old_duffer wrote:Well I see the trolls have finally come out to play...pleasevisitmyforum wrote:A condescending word of advice: don't add spam bot in your little forum or it would look even more desolated than it already is. Your constant whining is worse than spam. Please get lost like you promised.
But no little fellow, you continue hiding behind your anonymity - what you do best. When you're ready to finally come out of the closet - someone may then start to actually give a **** about your opinions...
Until then no one (least of all me) cares in the least what you post.old_duffer wrote:When you're ready to finally come out of the closet.
and interestingly enough you completely ignore the "start fresh" part.saulgoode wrote:. But if the only proposition which you have to offer is "burn it down" then
Well, it is hard to place higher regard on any action from the mods and admins since the lot of you have made it clear you don't give a flying expletive about this place anymore....why do you even bother to come here and post lectures if you aren't going to help turn this place around.saulgoode wrote: While I consider it far from pityable, it is a fact of life that people generally place higher regard on what a person does than what he says.
saulgoode wrote: I do not understand this mentality that the only way one can advance himself comes at the cost of the diminution of others. This forum exists so that users of the Debian distribution of GNU/Linux software can share their experiences and support each other in achieving maximal benefit from using it.
If you do not feel this forum is meeting its mandate then by all means offer suggestions on how the situation can be improved. But if the only proposition which you have to offer is "burn it down" then I would submit that you are being overly dismissive of those who feel that this forum offers, despite its imperfections, a worthwhile service to the Debian community.
This forum does not lay claim to exclusivity in providing such service -- indeed there are many alternatives available (including the forums at Linux Questions, Linux Forums, Debian Help, and the one in your signature). If you are not gaining satisfaction from your experience in participating in these forums, fine -- but why would you begrudge that option being made available to others who feel differently?
Your candor is appreciated.old_duffer wrote:As I'm addressing you directly, it's only fair to say who I am. This is cynwulf,
I made a simple assertion. I fail to see how it could be stated any more neutrally and the sentiment itself is not that distant from your own expectations for the treatment of the old duffers of this forum.old_duffer wrote:So once again you adopt the same lecturing and patronising stance?saulgoode wrote:While I consider it far from pityable, it is a fact of life that people generally place higher regard on what a person does than what he says.
old_duffer wrote:Your first sentence is obviously aimed at the people who left and went to the other place.saulgoode wrote:I do not understand this mentality that the only way one can advance himself comes at the cost of the diminution of others. This forum exists so that users of the Debian distribution of GNU/Linux software can share their experiences and support each other in achieving maximal benefit from using it.
I can't speak for him, but I know nadir quite well and can assure you he doesn't seek the demise of this board. New leadership? Absolutely- in particular a new "emperor". It can be difficult to translate nadir-ese, but I didn't read anything into his post about the demise of this board being something he wanted just to benefit those of us who decided to secede. I took his post as a clear call for a rebirth and restoration of this forum. Simply put, something was lost in the translation. At any rate, I'm sure he'll clarify for himself what he meant.saulgoode wrote: My comment was directed toward those who feel that the only way they can attain satisfaction is at the cost of the demise of this forum. This seems a rather vengeful attitude and generally inconsistent with the philosophy of the Free Software -- just because you fork a project to better suit your needs does not suggest any necessity that the original project be destroyed. Are you not disgusted when you hear some Ubuntard blogger suggesting there are too many distros and that Debian is unnecessary? I know I am. Nadir's statement smacks of the same sentiment.
You're right about that.nadir wrote:What i see right now is a shame for the OS.