How would you improve this forum?

[JohnDeere730]

I feel that the prohibition against "political discussions", as expressed in the forum guidelines, is too broadly stated; and should be qualified so as only to address partisan or nationalistic political discussions. As others have pointed out, the Free Software community is intimately confronted by issues of copyright, patent, and privacy legislation and enforcement, and to proscribe against discussion of those issues in the forums leaves an important area of concern for many Debian users unaddressed.

For the most part, I believe what I propose is the interpretation that the forum staff has observed; nonetheless, the wording leaves the members reluctant to engage in discussions that would otherwise be of benefit to the community.

+1

[nadir]

Would it be too early to ask if this thread was just chat?

[edbarx]

By a total enforcement of the rules and by banning arrogant posters who refuse to behave like civilised forum members.

@ Admins
Your effort is greatly appreciated.

[nadir]

By a total enforcement of the rules and by banning arrogant posters who refuse to behave like civilised forum members.

@ Admins
Your effort is greatly appreciated.

I guess you mean civilized like you, who posted a pm you got from an admin, Ana, in a public thread, where you complained about you not being a spamhunter?
Then you were banned, and it took some effort by other forum members to take the ban back.
Just in case you don't remember. I do.
Shesh.

[edbarx]

The contents of the letter mentioned had nothing personal as it was a reply I was not accepted as a spamhunter. Furthermore, in court, one does not simply comment about the contents of letters, but also produces them as proof. The latter, was the reason why I produced the letter, as I could have said anything without the actual proof of producing it.

However, the mentioned admin interpreted my posting of the letter as an insult and not as a proof that what I was claiming in the mentioned post was true. Finally, where I live, making claims and accusations without producing the evidence is considered as making unsustainable claims.

I would have agreed had the letter been unrelated with the administration of this forum, but in reality, this was never the case, and that is the second reason why I posted it.

[nadir]

I got no idea of courts, letters and what not, and i don't care about it.
You have been banned, and users have helped you to still be a member of the board.
Now you ask for more banning.
That is strange: If that would have been the case in the past you wouldn't be a member right now.

In my humble it was very friendly and human by Lavene and Ana to give you a further chance. I am not sure if the same would happen today.
At that time no user has been banned ever. Only you. Now the staff has changed, and it happens regulary (be it good or bad, but it's a matter of fact)
Funny enough now you ask for more bannings, and so shall it be. None of my business.

Good for you that all your posts from that time have been deleted...

[cynwulf]

[blah blah blah]

I remember this incident well Ed and I think you're avoiding the main issue here - which is that you were banned, members stood up for you and you were unbanned...

And now you're here a few years later calling for more bans...

Short memory?

[hhh]

What would you do to improve this forum?

Can't you see what's wrong yourself? Here's an embarrassing example...
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=78275

How the hell did that flame-fest go unchecked? It should have been locked right after craigevil's response. What do you think a newcomer's impression of that and other completely rude threads in this forum would be? Maybe that this forum caters to the old bitter smart-asses haunting this place thinking they're clever and not so much to them, a wide-eyed Debian novice?

[lukas]

What would you do to improve this forum?

Can't you see what's wrong yourself? Here's an embarrassing example...
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=78275

How the hell did that flame-fest go unchecked? It should have been locked right after craigevil's response. What do you think a newcomer's impression of that and other completely rude threads in this forum would be? Maybe that this forum caters to the old bitter smart-asses haunting this place thinking they're clever and not so much to them, a wide-eyed Debian novice?

+1

[Randicus]

What would you do to improve this forum?

Can't you see what's wrong yourself? Here's an embarrassing example...
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=78275

How the hell did that flame-fest go unchecked?

That thread is neither the problem nor part of the problem. It is a symptom of the problem. The thread was the result of a bad decision, in which a member was banned for a trivial reason, while worse offenders are not censured in any way. The "embarrassing" thread was the result of inconsistent enforcement of forum rules. How to improve the forum? Answer; Either enforce the rules consistently or eliminate the rules.

[cynwulf]

It's now well over one month later... but this pointless thread was effectively a closed book from the second it was opened and here's why:

What would you do to improve this forum?

Note: Saying "Get rid of Spam" or "Get rid of Trolls" isn't going to make any difference - if we could - we'd have done so - but we fight the long fight.

So:

- Solving the spam problem is out. So it's "how to improve the forum but spam is off the agenda" (but still on the menu). There are over 1000 registered spambot accounts on this board.

- Attacking the troll problem is out. The staff seemingly cannot or will not control these pathetic multiple account spammers, but will happily ban the likes of sossego.

- "we fight the long fight" - so it would seem mate - you turn up here about once per year, blab a lot of useless rhetoric and then vanish again, so at this rate "the long fight" does indeed seem like a very apt description...

Also, this is not an opportunity to start a flame war

It's generally the trolls who start the flame wars... but as you're unwilling/unable to do anything about them...

- or to raise complaints about staff

So staff are beyond reproach... you know I'm glad you set these rules out here because now I can get down to business and start discussing how to improve the forum... Under the current circumstances, this is how I would improve it:

1) Appoint a new administration.

[Randicus]

Starting this thread is a technique borrowed from Western "democratic" governments. Make an elaborate show of asking the people what they think, then ignoring what is said. Sleight-of-hand to trick the people into believing the government is listening to them.
As cynwulf pointed out, a two-page thread with many suggestions and complaints, but not a single post from an administrator. It would appear that the original post was simply submitted and forgotten. I wish I was wrong, but ...

Under the current circumstances, this is how I would improve it:

1) Appoint a new administration.

Agreed.
All in favour, say Yea.

[iceman]

Improve this forum? Simple, give away a free Operating system for anyone that signs up. It has to be stable, free and the user must be able to modify if they so choose. Also having a huge repository of software for that free OS would be great... Oh wait, ok. I got it.

Offer free coffee and cookies, no I don't mean java and browser cookies. Or offer free beer...

Ok, really. I have no useful tips to improve this forum. I think it is great as is.

Edit: I read the thread replies after I posted my reply to the original question. To deal with bans it is simple. Keep current administrators as is and set up a review panel for banned members to appeal to. This panel must NOT include anyone with banning power.

There you go. Problem solved. While nothing is ever going to be 100%, we are human and sometimes mistakes happen, this would, imo, be the best solution.

[Randicus]

How could it be done, when the people with the power to set up such a panel do not care about the forum and do not have any interest in managing it?

[iceman]

How could it be done, when the people with the power to set up such a panel do not care about the forum and do not have any interest in managing it?

I have faith in the Debian community. Anything can be done

[JohnDeere730]

I have faith in the Debian community. Anything can be done

Ah, me boy...your trusting soul is expressed through your dewy-eyed innocence; it brings a tear to me wizened old eye and a lump to me wrinkled throat.
I have faith in the Debian User community; I also have faith in the Debian developers to create a very fine OS. I have absolutely no faith, however, in the current administration's desire to actually improve anything here; especially since the man who started this delightful little exercise in futility hasn't even logged in in almost a month. This whole thread has no more effect on the administration of this board than the bleating of the sheep has on the shepherd's decision to roast one for his dinner.

[confuseling]

Oh really, so much bloody drama again.

If you want to compare this here to a totalitarian regime, why in hells name haven't you been summarily banned for speaking out?

This forum doesn't work, in various ways, for various reasons. It still works, in various ways, for various people who use it. Complaining about how it doesn't work is either productive, if it changes something, or a contribution to the gradual, depressing ruin for the rest of us, if it doesn't.

Frankly, I'm getting to the point where I want to just write "Start your own ******* forum, and stop whinging about it" to all its critics. I have my criticisms - don't get me wrong. But it clearly isn't a democracy, and it isn't pretending to be, so what the hell is the point in hanging around and complaining? I am prepared to tolerate the people who have been here for years, and are hoping for a return to glory: I think they're misguided, because I don't think it will happen, but I accept their right to complain. For the rest of you, either you want to make this forum work, BY THE TERMS IN WHICH IT IS CLEARLY, STATED OR IMPLIED, SET OUT, or you don't.

The net is vast. Make a bloody decision.

[Randicus]

The forum is neither totalitarian nor, Heaven forbid, a democracy. The problem is, there is no system. There are rules, but they are not enforced, usually. The administrators are not only absent, but do not care about the forum they are supposed to be in charge of. That is what half of the complaints in this thread are about. The other half are about the wrong people being banned.

Frankly, I'm getting to the point where I want to just write "Start your own ******* forum, and stop whinging about it" to all its critics.

That has already been done.

The reason people are complaining and making suggestions for change is that many forum members want to help the forum, or dare we say, save the forum. If accept the crappy situation or leave is the only option, the future is not bright.

[nadir]

THE TERMS IN WHICH IT IS CLEARLY, STATED OR IMPLIED, SET OUT,

I AM NOT SURE WHICH RULES YOU MEAN; BECAUSE THERE ARE SEVERAL VERSIONS; ALL OVER THE PLACE. ONE CAN PICK WHATEVER ONE WANTS, WHICH IS WORSE THAN NO RULES AT ALL (WE DO WHAT WE WANT ANYWAY). THEY ARE ANYTHING BUT CLEARLY STATED.
WAS THAT LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU?


Above saulgode, who is calm and liberal and all, made a good proposal. That has been ignored too. Just saying.

[nadir]

I have faith in the Debian community. Anything can be done

Ah, me boy...your trusting soul is expressed through your dewy-eyed innocence; it brings a tear to me wizened old eye and a lump to me wrinkled throat.
I have faith in the Debian User community; I also have faith in the Debian developers to create a very fine OS. I have absolutely no faith, however, in the current administration's desire to actually improve anything here; especially since the man who started this delightful little exercise in futility hasn't even logged in in almost a month. This whole thread has no more effect on the administration of this board than the bleating of the sheep has on the shepherd's decision to roast one for his dinner.

That is good.