New Greens and Purples?

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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby MALsPa » 2013-01-28 09:31

Absent Minded wrote:In all fairness I think we forget that all of the staff here are volinteer and not paid site admins. Our admins, at least most of them have full-time jobs in addition to being developers for Debian. By the time one gets home from work often 10+ hours of ones day has been shot. Making time for family and still donating time to develop for Debian quite honestly doesn't leave a whole lot of time for much else I would imagine. This is the first time the forum has been able to add a few administrators that are not active DDs. I do hope you all will concider these things before you pass judgment on the admins that quite honestly saved this forum from extinction just a few short years ago. Yes, things have been rough at times but the forum is still here to be used. If not for Mez and the other admins that felt this forum still offered some value to our community and the Debian project this forum would not exist today as the original founders up and abandoned the forum when things became too rough for them. I haven't forgotten and you all shouldn't either.


The efforts of the Debian User Forums staff are appreciated. Good luck with getting this spam mess cleaned up.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby confuseling » 2013-01-28 14:46

saulgoode wrote:
confuseling wrote:I'm not asking how to do a google search. I'm pointing out that the built in search is fundamentally broken. Having a button labelled 'search' which doesn't work is perverse, and must create many duplicate threads.

Isn't the problem with your example that your search term ("usb") is too short? If it is something else, perhaps you could elaborate? I have not noticed a failing of the search utility on this forum that isn't typical of every other PHPBB forum I've used.


That is the problem, yes, but many terms people are likely to be searching for are short, and many new users aren't going to realise it's a restriction of the board. Even if it just said "Search term is too short" it'd improve things.

Outside searches will often order things better as well, an example being

search.php?keywords=mixed+testing+sid

vs

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=mixed+testi ... debian.net
The Forum's search box is terrible. Use site specific search, e.g.
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A ... terms+here
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby cynwulf » 2013-01-28 15:10

The counter spam division are doing well against the louis vuitton hand bag wielding hordes... but can they keep it up forever...? The mindless bots do not tire and do not bore easily...

@confuseling: the phpBB built in search can be tweaked from the admincp but is quite crap and puts a huge load on the server. This is why the outside search method (search_term site:forums.debian.net) is often suggested.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby Absent Minded » 2013-01-28 16:40

I am hoping we can come up with better solutions to the spam problem. It is being worked on. It definantly would be nice as well if an improved search feature could be implamented without advertizing or implying endorsment of a specific search engine, I know, more polotics... but that is something that we have to concider as well.

There was a comparison made earlier between the GPL software licence and forum polocies/rules. One shouldn't forget the GPL licence doesn't just protect the end user but also the original developer of the software as well. What was said would be much like someone coming into ones home or place of business and having no regard for the owners property or respect for them. Are any of you going to tollerate someone coming into your home or business, disrespecting you or your family? Are you going to allow someone to rearange your place or reformat your computers hard drive? I highly doubt it... It is like saying but you believe in free software so I can do what I want with your stuff in your home. The GPL protects both the developer and the end user. The GPL allows one to make a copy of the original code once you have aquired it' maybe one had to pay or maybe not but it doesn't allow one to claim rights to that software one doesn't have. There is always more to concider than just one side of things.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby nadir » 2013-01-28 16:57

Oh?
Now that you say i got to agree.
Anyone who visits me has to do as i say and to say what i want.
Else i usually shoot them without further warning.
The sign at my door says: I am the law. (so they knew what they came for).
Sure. It is the well know hospitality to be found here, in northern Europe. I think it is the prototype of what one calls hospitality.

Strange enough no interesting people ever visit me. They all only say what i say myself. My life is a bit boring.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby Absent Minded » 2013-01-28 17:29

nadir wrote:Oh?
Now that you say i got to agree.
Anyone who visits me has to do as i say and to say what i want.
Else i usually shoot them without further warning.
The sign at my door says: I am the law. (so they knew what they came for).
Sure. It is the well know hospitality to be found here, in northern Europe. I think it is the prototype of what one calls hospitality.

Strange enough no interesting people ever visit me. They all only say what i say myself. My life is a bit boring.

I am sure even you have certian limits to what you will allow in your home. We use to be friends and yet because we have a differance of opinion on just a few things I get treated like I am now your bitter enimy. So yes, dispite your stance that everyone should get to do and say whatever they want, if it is not your way, it's the highway.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby llivv » 2013-01-28 18:10

Absent Minded wrote: So yes, dispite your stance that everyone should get to do and say whatever they want, if it is not your way, it's the highway.
I don't know about anyone else, but I have taken that for granted for at least several years now. I just agree to disagree and try to ignore ( whenever the need rise-up )
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby nadir » 2013-01-28 18:27

Your observation of me is right.
I am not sarcastic or kidding, it _is_ right.
I can't say i am proud of it.

I wish i could say: " i am sorry, it won't happen again."
But that would be a lie.
As long people (moderators) will moderate, i will complain about that.
The moderators got buttons. I got words.
It has got nothing to do with you, AbsentMinded, but with the position you got.
You should know that i shout at any moderator, no matter who he is.


In Germany we say this: "You can't get out of your skin"
If i am being seen as an object, as someone you can push around (move his posts, close his threads, remove his threads, etc) i go straight nut (that would be my skin. And i will not be able to change that. Not sure if i even want it).

But i would not forbid anyone to say whatever he wants. For me it is the most basic human right of all.
I will go mad, i will shout at him, i will curse. But i will not say: he/she shall not be allowed to speak (anymore)
Perhaps i would do it if i could. We don't know. I can't, and of that i am glad.

Something must be seriously wrong with me. I can't see anyone else who is looking for the same thing (a place where people can speak free without any restrictions). People say: "it is not possible. It is chaos. " darknets are close, though.

-
Take care.
I seriously hope you are well.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby Absent Minded » 2013-01-28 18:48

nadir wrote:Your observation of me is right.
I am not sarcastic or kidding, it _is_ right.
I can't say i am proud of it.

I wish i could say: " i am sorry, it won't happen again."
But that would be a lie.
As long people (moderators) will moderate, i will complain about that.
The moderators got buttons. I got words.
It has got nothing to do with you, AbsentMinded, but with the position you got.
You should know that i shout at any moderator, no matter who he is.


In Germany we say this: "You can't get out of your skin"
If i am being seen as an object, as someone you can push around (move his posts, close his threads, remove his threads, etc) i go straight nut (that would be my skin. And i will not be able to change that. Not sure if i even want it).

But i would not forbid anyone to say whatever he wants. For me it is the most basic human right of all.
I will go mad, i will shout at him, i will curse. But i will not say: he/she shall not be allowed to speak (anymore)
Perhaps i would do it if i could. We don't know. I can't, and of that i am glad.

Something must be seriously wrong with me. I can't see anyone else who is looking for the same thing (a place where people can speak free without any restrictions). People say: "it is not possible. It is chaos. " darknets are close, though.

-
Take care.
I seriously hope you are well.


Nadir, thank you. Yes, I am well. I try to remember in all things that people are people and not just a number or a name. I try very hard to be fair with everyone.
Serving the community the best way I can.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby emariz » 2013-01-29 03:12

purple-dasein owes me a drink:
viewtopic.php?p=450935#p450935
viewtopic.php?p=451861#p451861

Even though the European Union is German nowadays, the Germans could not win here.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby dasein » 2013-01-29 04:03

emariz wrote:purple-dasein owes me a drink:

Take your pick:
Image
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby saulgoode » 2013-01-29 10:13

nadir wrote:As long people (moderators) will moderate, i will complain about that.
The moderators got buttons. I got words.
nadir wrote:But i would not forbid anyone to say whatever he wants. For me it is the most basic human right of all.
I will go mad, i will shout at him, i will curse. But i will not say: he/she shall not be allowed to speak (anymore)
Perhaps i would do it if i could. We don't know. I can't, and of that i am glad.

Yet just about a week ago, you were complaining that the moderators weren't forbidding people from saying what they want. Sure those people were "spammers" and what they wanted to say was "buy my stuff" but still your complaint last week does not reconcile with your supposed unequivocal support of freedom of speech, nor with your complaint this week.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby nadir » 2013-01-29 10:32

s/anyone/users
For me a user is not a spammer.
For you he is?
If yes: interesting. If no: lack of logic in your argument.
Besides that a spammer is usually a bot, hence he can't have human rights.

And before you start to discuss further: I would also exclude anti-semitism, racism, sexism and the like).
There you got a reason to assume that i don't know what i am talking about and just babble without any reason
(anything is not anything, but anything minus a bit). The argument with spammers, otho, is weak.

You know well that this forum was without any moderation for more than just a few weeks, last year (all mods and admins not present, spamhunters doing the spamhunting). It worked well.

The absolute minimum of respect would be to inform a user that his post has been removed. Also to inform his friends that he has been banned.
Either one wants idiots as users, or one has to think of them as people who are also able to think (and who do things for a reason. Perhaps it is the mod who can't understand the reason, in a certain case? Or does one get an assert(true) with the new color too?).

The new stuff will soon find all the buttons (just like any other staff uses buttons for the one reason: to figure out how they work. Impossible to install phpbb locally and test it there? Seems so).
Give humans buttons. They will use them:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250258/
Then they will give you damn got reasons why they have to use them. With a split tongue, or curse.

To hesitate before one "does" is not the worst thing which could happen to this world. Step back and think: it is really necessary? Does it really do enough harm to give a reason to edit/remove/move/ban ?
(If i would be banned here, there would be more than enough good reasons. I wouldn't complain )
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby saulgoode » 2013-01-29 12:01

nadir wrote:s/anyone/users
For me a user is not a spammer.

Again with the unequivocal assertions. What distinguishes between a user and a spammer? It can't be the number of posts -- because I've processed at least a dozen spammers that have had more than 200 posts, and we have a Spam Hunter with only 20.

Is it the quality of the posts? If so, then by whose judgment? And what standard? If you went to a forum dedicated to photos of swimsuit-clad models toting assault rifles and submitted a post about how to install GIMP or setup a passwordless ssh server, your post would most likely be considered spam and be removed. Why do you think that is?

Let me tell you. Your post would be removed because it is inappropriate to that forum. That is to say, it interferes with the reason that forum exists. The people who created that forum did so for a reason; they had a goal. When someone agrees with that goal, they may decide to volunteer or otherwise contribute to that forum. It is not fair to any of those contributors if the goal is later changed to something different. Whether the change is owing to the founders altering course or to outsiders interfering with the pursuit of that goal it is still unfair, and disrespectful to everybody who contributes to the forum.

That is why forums have moderation: to be fair to everybody who contributes premised on the goals that the forum is pursuing. If a particular comment is deemed "inappropriate" to the forum, this is not a judgment about the quality of the post, nor is it a value judgment of the user making the post. It is not a matter of the moderator being impressed by or agreeing with the content of the post; it is a largely objective analysis of whether that post supports, interferes with, or is basically neutral towards the common goal upon which the community has decided to pursue.

Is there a difference between contributing members and spambots? Of course. Is there a distinction between a spambot posting a Viagra ad and a longtime member posting about whether Apollo11 landed on the moon? Yes there is. But the criteria used to moderate this forum is not whether the staff likes or dislikes a person, agrees or disagrees with an opinion. It is about whether the post is in furtherance of, or interferes with, the goal of the forum.
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Re: New Greens and Purples?

Postby llivv » 2013-01-29 13:55

nadir wrote:(If i would be banned here, there would be more than enough good reasons. I wouldn't complain )

I might, knowing well how many others would not like it, agree with it.
As was seen by anyone reading in Off topic recently, when a poster knows he/she is getting close enough to a certain action being taken
by forum moderation, chances are, well that moderation will happen.
I would have liked to respond to post in the thread "Give Up" linked to yesterday. Saying it is same here in US and is probably the same everywhere in the world, only exceptions to the rule these days. But the thread is not locked yet, and I don't want to be the one to get it locked. And I wanted also to respond to the graphic in the thread that linked to the "give up" thread. But it would have been sexists and gotten more people to ignore my posts. And I'm probably already on enough ignore lists already,
Is Nadir an opinionated sob?
In my many years of rise up -get shot down again, I only wish I had the courage to write free.
Edit: Instead a muddle through One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich and wonder to myself what that life feels like.
Last edited by llivv on 2013-01-29 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
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