Desktop selection during installation

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Desktop selection during installation

Postby classe » 2018-11-20 07:02

Hi,

What's the difference between "Debian desktop environment" and "GNOME" ?

During my installation of Debian 9.6, I selected the option of "GNOME" on the screen of "Software selection", and then, after finished the installation, I can login the GNOME environment;

But, if I selected "Debian desktop environment" instead of "GNOME", the login environment was still GNOME !

So, what's the difference between "Debian desktop environment" and "GNOME" ?
or "Debian desktop environment" = "GNOME" ?

If they were the same, why "Debian desktop environment" ?

Image

Thanks
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby Palmstroem » 2018-11-20 08:48

The answer is written in the documentation:
By default, debian-installer installs the Gnome desktop environment. It is possible to interactively select a different desktop environment during the installation. It is also possible to install multiple desktops, but some combinations of desktop may not be co-installable.

So if you select the Debian desktop environment only, then GNOME will be installed by default. If you tick GNOME additionally, same situation. If you don't select Debian desktop environment at all, then you won't have a graphical desktop.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby classe » 2018-11-20 10:18

Thanks ,
I had read the document before posting this topic, and I thought that maybe there is sth wrong;

The truth is that, I choose "GNOME" only, NOT tick the "Debian desktop environment" , after the installation, I got a gnome desktop environment;

That is to say that there are three methods for user to install a gnome desktop environment:
1--- tick "GNOME" only;
2--- tick "Debian desktop environment" only;
3--- tick both "GNOME" and "Debian desktop environment"

It's an odd result.
Why? I think there is no need to make a "Debian desktop environment" option for users.



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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby Palmstroem » 2018-11-20 15:30

OK, from a purist's point of view the check box for "Debian desktop environment" is superfluous then - logically. However, on the other hand I think that whenever you choose one or more of the sub-options GNOME ... LXDE then of course you obviously vote to have a Debian desktop environment, don't you agree? Perhaps the best solution would be that the installer automatically sets the check box for "Debian desktop environment" if one or more of the sub-options were checked.
You could drop a note to the developers.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby golinux » 2018-11-20 16:02

Some new users might not be aware of the various DEs and wouldn't know which one to choose. It would probably be better to word it "Default Debian desktop environment" but there might be space constraints to doing so.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby debiman » 2018-11-20 18:29

^ this.
it's good to have a clear default.
btw, gnome hasn't always been the default debian desktop environment.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby golinux » 2018-11-20 18:59

debiman wrote:btw, gnome hasn't always been the default debian desktop environment.

And almost wasn't for Jessie. Xfce was a heavy favorite until . . . the whole systemd/gnome lock in. Would love to have been a fly on the wall behind those closed doors.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-11-20 19:39

golinux wrote:Xfce was a heavy favorite until . . . the whole systemd/gnome lock in. Would love to have been a fly on the wall behind those closed doors.

Debian is very open:

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/R ... ion/Jessie

^ That shows why GNOME was chosen (and I agree with the decision).

XFCE lost because it doesn't support accessibility as well as GNOME and because systemd integration is poor.

More here: https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team ... bb1d9ee6d7
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby milomak » 2018-11-20 20:00

it seems simple to me:
- there is a default debian de - from reading here it seems to be gnome
- there is the possibility of downloading all the dvds. in which case you have a choice of many de. at this point you may not know which one is the default. so both default and gnome are shown as a choice.

edit - what would be more interesting is what happens say you install from the cinnamon install iso. i assume of course that both install cinnamon.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby classe » 2018-11-23 03:09

If is was designed for beginners only, or just for showing Debian's DEFALULT de,I think that maybe we can redesign the multi-selection items an so on;

For beginners, the best way to experience Debian is to install and use it on a computer; so, the first step is to install Debian; and, there shouldn't have anything that would do make beginners confused I think.

I think I can try to do this redesign work, maybe;

If I got a better result,I will drop it to the developers.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby debiman » 2018-11-23 06:15

classe wrote:For beginners, the best way to experience Debian is to install and use it on a computer; so, the first step is to install Debian; and, there shouldn't have anything that would do make beginners confused I think.

i resent the notion of viewing all "beginners" as essentially illiterate and confused.
unless you mean beginners that are actually beginners in life, haven't yet learned reading or writing (or ticking boxes).

even if i have never used linux before, i can still understand a menu that tells me
  • the first choice is labeled "Deafult". it is also the first choice. afair it is also already preselected.
  • other choices come below that, and are NOT "Default"
that's sufficiently clear, beginner or not.
no need to change anything (and seriously, please don't waste debian maintainers/developers time with that).

sheesh.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby classe » 2018-11-25 09:53

debiman wrote:[*]the first choice is labeled "Deafult". it is also the first choice. afair it is also already preselected.
sheesh.
[/quote]

Are you sure?

But, where is the "Default” lable?
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby milomak » 2018-11-25 16:00

classe wrote:
debiman wrote:[*]the first choice is labeled "Deafult". it is also the first choice. afair it is also already preselected.
sheesh.


Are you sure?

But, where is the "Default” lable?

Image

seems perfectly fine to me. go with default(which aslo happens to be gnome) or specifically choose one you want (which may also be gnome if you don't know what the default is)
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby golinux » 2018-11-25 17:54

"standard system utilities" won't install a DE afaik. It will only create an environment that will allow you to install DE components you want after installation is complete. But it's been a long time since I've used the d-i. refractainstaller live disks are much easier and faster.
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Re: Desktop selection during installation

Postby classe » 2018-11-26 12:16

Let's have a look that what happened during desktop environment selection for a newbie to debian:

To the newbie:
1. I know kde, I know gnome, and I know of xfce even, but, I do not know of "Debian desktop environment"; it never appears in the other linux distribution;
So, what is "Debian desktop environment"? Is that a new kind of DE designed by Debian?

2. After the installation of debian by selecting "Debian desktop environment" only, a GNOME DE appeared;
What? I did not select GNOME! what I had selected is "Debian desktop environment"! Did I remember it wrong? memory loss maybe~

3. When reinstall debian, or another installation in virtual machine, I do select "Debian desktop environment" only, but, still I got a GNOME desktop!
Why? Did they forget something that there already is a GNOME option?

4. During the 3rd installation of debian, maybe 4th, on the desktop selection screen, I got caught up in thinking:
Maybe Debian love GNOME; they do not like the other DEs, so, they make two GNOME options on the selection screen: one is GNOME, and the other is "Debian desktop environment"; Debian want all people to use GNOME, maybe~

5. Oh, if none of the above, emmm, maybe they forgot something or they just made a mistake~ Oh, low-quality software~

-----------------------
I hope that anyone who use debian would love debian, I do not want anyone to misunderstand Debian!

It's not just me who are confused by the DE selection screen.

I dropped this topic because I think that maybe there is something that i neglected, I want to know why; Thanks all of you to explain to me what you think;

But, none of the explanntion above can make me clear of it. I don't know how to explain it to a newbie when I recommend him to use Debian, it doesn't feel reasonable.

Do all of you think that the DE selection during debian installation is OK?
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