Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

Postby bw123 » 2019-01-12 20:44

# cat /proc/1/comm

so you're not using logind, and complaining that you can't get to a login?
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-01-12 20:45

zimbodel wrote:
Code: Select all
# cat /proc/1/comm

How have you configured your system to boot without systemd?

Here's what a working Debian system should look like:
Code: Select all
empty@shinken:~ $ cat /proc/1/comm
empty@shinken:~ $ systemctl status getty@tty2.service --no-p                                       
● getty@tty2.service - Getty on tty2
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
   Active: active (running) since Sat 2019-01-12 20:58:48 GMT; 35min ago
     Docs: man:agetty(8)
 Main PID: 8613 (agetty)
    Tasks: 1 (limit: 4915)
   CGroup: /system.slice/system-getty.slice/getty@tty2.service
           └─8613 /sbin/agetty --noclear tty2 linux
empty@shinken:~ $

<Ctrl>+<Alt>+F2 works fine here :)
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

Postby GarryRicketson » 2019-01-12 21:29

Ctrl>+<Alt>+F2 works fine here :) Same here, works fine for me

zimbodel wrote:Then dont give a shit and ignore the post.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
zimbodel wrote:Not acceptable

You do know there are no Debian developers here, right?
I know that I couldn't give a flying shit about what you consider to be acceptable, nor do I care which operating system you use :mrgreen:

As to your reequeest.
$ sudo systemctl status getty@tty2.service --no-p
Failed to get properties: No such interface ''

just click YES

When a OS makes so many changes, that I no longer can manage or administer the system , rather then wasting every bodies time, being rude, whining and crying, demanding the other users do something, the simple ,easy solution, find another OS that is more to my liking.
zimbodel:>>I will run my systems any way I want. I have been doing so for more than 20 years with no issue.
Maybe some children should not be allowed in the sandbox and needs a safe space.

So the advice really applies to you.
Enjoy your deserved safespace. (try sudo first)

Yea, right, look at what running it the way you want has gotten you, it is broken and you don't know what to do.
If this clown is not willing to follow the advice they are asking for, that is fine , run your system the way you want, and don't waste everyone's time asking for advice and answers you refuse to follow.
just click YES
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

Postby llivv » 2019-01-12 23:56

zimbodel wrote:The last few debian versions started ping-ponging with very serious basic services that I relied on for decade+

1) It seems that control Alt F1-9 is now abolished.
All of them I cant even get one terminal.
Sheesh !!! now if I have an X problem and get a hung login screen I cant even control+alt+F1 to a terminal and quickly fix the mess. I guess now I have to boot into rescue mode and have no realtime problem resolution anymore.
This is really braindead not to support this anymore. In stretch it is not working and neither did it on some previous Debian versions during vanilla install.
Really is like silently abolishing Cron (which would be irresponsible).
Are you guys going to abolish it now finally or what is the plan ?

2) rc.local doesnt work anymore although it is included in /etc. It has been pingponging working/notworking between distributions.
The previous distribution started to leave out chmod +x on default which made it not execute. Even that now doesnt help anymore.
Are you guys going to at least have an executable rc.local in future versions or does boring but brick-stable BSD become more attractive to me again.

3) There is also on/off support for @reboot in cron.
I write cron scripts and then they dont work when upgrading to a newer debion version.
Why the backwards compatibilty issues with such a mission critical application?
Are you guys going to abolish it now finally or what is the plan ? as I now have to keep different scripts for different Debian versions.

There aren't many left in this forum running init.
If using stable-stretch, old stable-jessie they are, in my opinion the Most init unfriendly releases.
If going back to wheezy is an option it still functions well for most of the issues mentioned, but custom scripts is not one of them IIRC. (see dependency based boot ) these issues started a long time ago IIRC flip flopping between how it should be implemented, confusing almost everyone including me. should debian support ubuntu using startpar or should debian use one of the other two possible solutions. It looks like debain now uses startpar and insserv and I don't even know the difference or why they both get installed. I think they both effect how init scripts are processed. And I'm not sure if the issue came from upstream, red hat or ubuntu, but I do remember Ubuntu making a big stink about how debian should proceed. Along with other SJW stuff in the forums.

Anyways, Sid is your other option. It works OK using init, but it is in no way shape or form easy to maintain in a systemdless state. It takes constant care and a knowledgeable user/admin to keep it chuggin along. And you have to be able to fix any borked issues as there is no body left in this forum to help with it...-
maybe one or two that keep a Low profile or get the same kind of treatment you are getting in this thread. But that is the Debian way of old. And should be nothing new to you, as it appears to me it is not...
Besides those issues their is the other Big one and it's exactly what you are describing in this thread.
To run init in Debian since Jessie is very restrictive in the package selection area.
Anyone running init has to know before hand what will work with init and what will not work on the now none supported Debian system. Gnome is out completely so is KDE XFCE might run without too much mangling The lightest WM that fits needs is all you can hope for.

X in Sid is still OK but it also is weird at times and especially so when compared to how stable it was back in wheezy days.
With thing like wayland, weston, vulkan, as well as kernel xserver interactions via modesetting, etc it not getting any easier to keep unix backwards compatible.
Things are changing fast these days and what I have posted here could change in a year a month or a day from now.
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

Postby zimbodel » 2019-01-28 19:41

lliv, thank you for the status report on debian. It is useful information.
I have too many servers to convert and need to run init for quite some time as the scripts and cronjobs are extensive.
You advice is valuable thanks.

I followed the advice I found at Nixcraft and it solved my problem

Debian ships from distribution to distribution with both anacron and cron running as daemons.
It is not entirely repeatable it sems as the anacron antagonist is seemingly started with gnome-scheduler etc resulting in @reboot and /etc/rc.local to fail at boot using cron.

This was the case on my clean Debian stretch install and the advice from NIXCRAFT solved it.
My cronjobs and /etc/rc.local entries are working great in Debian Stretch as expected now.
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