Jessie and systemd

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Jessie and systemd

Postby mirix » 2014-02-16 09:25

Hello,

I have just read about Debian migrating to systemd. I do not have any particular opinion on this matter.

However, I am currently running Jessie in 3 computers and I am a bit concerned about the transition.

If, say, one day I see some systemd-related stuff while doing a d-u, should I go ahead? Will my system boot like usual or will I need to do some manual configuration prior to rebooting?

It would be great to have some kind of brief migration guide letting us know where the new configuration files will be located and which commands should we use to perform the usual maintenance tasks.

Best regards,

Miro

P.S.: I have installed Debian by adding Mate on top of a minimal installation (standard system utilities) and have suggested and recommended packages disabled by default in apt (mostly to prevent ending up with the whole Gnome and Kde DEs installed...).
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby debiman » 2014-02-16 09:58

mirix wrote:It would be great to have some kind of brief migration guide letting us know where the new configuration files will be located and which commands should we use to perform the usual maintenance tasks.
...
I have installed Debian by adding Mate on top of a minimal installation (standard system utilities) and have suggested and recommended packages disabled by default in apt (mostly to prevent ending up with the whole Gnome and Kde DEs installed...).

i cannot say much about debian and will there be a how-to or not, but chances are if and when the switch is made, it will also be possible to perform it without breaking your system.

your description of how you set up your system sounds like you will be able to perform that switch!

Arch Linux has switched to systemd in 2012 and has a very good wiki which has helped me many times even on debian-based systems.
start reading here.
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby vbrummond » 2014-02-16 10:42

I have already moved my Debian systems to systemd in jessie/sid. As far as I can tell it works with existing sysvinit scripts. So I assume when the transition is ready for the default, it will work quite well.
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby PeterB » 2014-02-17 11:25

mirix wrote:It would be great to have some kind of brief migration guide letting us know where the new configuration files will be located and which commands should we use to perform the usual maintenance tasks.



To get started, install systemd with your favorite package manager. To boot with systemd, add
Code: Select all
init=/lib/systemd/systemd

to the grub command line.

I would avoid installing systemd-sysv at this time, so you can backout if need be by reverting via grub command.

systemctl (for daemons) and journalctl (for logging) are the main utilities. Lots of info in the man pages.
(Just try
Code: Select all
journalctl -b
and/or
Code: Select all
 systemctl
first).

The main configuration file is /etc/systemd/system.conf

Enjoy.


See also
https://wiki.debian.org/systemd
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby timbgo » 2014-08-01 10:11

If I may, I'd rather recommend the opposite view:

Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=116472

Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia,
www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby Randicus » 2014-08-01 11:03

Crusading your cause by advertising your long politcal (? hard to tell what is) rant is bordering on trolling. Do not worry. People who want to discuss your treatise will post in that thread.
Linux refugee having fled the merciless onslaught of systemd and the Buntard horde to a haven of sanity.
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby llivv » 2014-08-01 15:12

I'll go on my old school debian rant now, if you are a new debian user you are free to ignore it if you don't like it.

mirix wrote:I have just read about Debian migrating to systemd. I do not have any particular opinion on this matter.

I think that is a good position to be in while the debian devs hash out this and other, perplexing ( for some ), issue[s].

mirix wrote:However, I am currently running Jessie in 3 computers and I am a bit concerned about the transition.

If, say, one day I see some systemd-related stuff while doing a d-u, should I go ahead? Will my system boot like usual or will I need to do some manual configuration prior to rebooting?
[old school debain rant] If you run testing you should already be aware of d-u issues with the testing branch of the debian archive, not only for systemd but for every other package you have installed. If you don't already know the answer to your question you should be using the stable branch of the debian archive instead. Your question is one of the most basic testing issues there is and imo that will ever be regarding testing. [/rant]

mirix wrote:It would be great to have some kind of brief migration guide letting us know where the new configuration files will be located and which commands should we use to perform the usual maintenance tasks.
The best you will find will be posted to the debian wiki as soon as the devs have any extra time to make one and are confident that it will be relevant for more then a few days. Coincidentally, one of the big issues with any currently developed gnu/linux / debian package documentation.

mirix wrote:P.S.: I have installed Debian by adding Mate on top of a minimal installation (standard system utilities) and have suggested and recommended packages disabled by default in apt (mostly to prevent ending up with the whole Gnome and Kde DEs installed...).
If you have used this method on all three of your machines you should be well on your way to understanding all the issues I've referenced above.
best regards
in the kitchen with Julia ....
[...]
Get on the D bus to B Can ....
[...]
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby mirix » 2014-08-01 16:56

@llivv

I only asked if issues were to be expected during the transition to systemd and if the transition was already on the schedule. Why? Well, quite obviously to be more vigilant during that period and, if need be, refrain from d-uing.

I still think that those questions made sense and it seems that most users agree on that. I appreciate all your preaching anyway. It seems you have plenty of free time. Lucky you!

Going back to the practicalities of the transition. The migration has brought about some issues, indeed, but not very serious. For instance, in certain systems such as those running LXDE the shut-down and reboot buttons do not work any more. Luckily, the Sparky fellows have already patched LXDE and therefore the affected users can pull the required packages from them. In other systems I get all kind of messages while booting informing me about issues with physical and logical volumes (configured prior to the migration), but apparently all that has no practical consequences.

In another post, I have also (wrongly) attributed to systemd other issue with permissions. I have also found, again with LXDE, some policykit misconfiguration which in certain fora is also attributed to systemd. I do not know, but I seem to have been able to solve the issue by tweaking a couple of configuration files and therefore I have no intention to look for the culprit any longer.
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby deb-sys » 2014-08-08 21:21

mirix wrote:@llivv

I only asked if issues were to be expected during the transition to systemd and if the transition was already on the schedule. Why? Well, quite obviously to be more vigilant during that period and, if need be, refrain from d-uing...


did a d-u on jul. 26, rebooted to a 'rescue shell.'
- login broken likely due to systemd not recognizing my encrypted swap (though i thought this was to be reconciled w/ the previous dmsetup update); using ctrl-d for default mode to access gui login
- bluetooth (bluez) and apparmor/profiles also broke after the d-u (though cannot rightfully attribute to systemd)
- moving my debian system to 7.6 + backports until things settle down
- my arch system had similar breakages when they migrated, somehow it aggravated me less possibly due to my expectations from the respective distros

for all who are eternally mortified by the systemd ramifications... this too shall pass. :)
<awaiting a less eventful wayland transition>
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Re: Jessie and systemd

Postby mirix » 2014-09-16 05:55

deb-sys wrote:
mirix wrote:@llivv

I only asked if issues were to be expected during the transition to systemd and if the transition was already on the schedule. Why? Well, quite obviously to be more vigilant during that period and, if need be, refrain from d-uing...


did a d-u on jul. 26, rebooted to a 'rescue shell.'
- login broken likely due to systemd not recognizing my encrypted swap (though i thought this was to be reconciled w/ the previous dmsetup update); using ctrl-d for default mode to access gui login
- bluetooth (bluez) and apparmor/profiles also broke after the d-u (though cannot rightfully attribute to systemd)
- moving my debian system to 7.6 + backports until things settle down
- my arch system had similar breakages when they migrated, somehow it aggravated me less possibly due to my expectations from the respective distros

for all who are eternally mortified by the systemd ramifications... this too shall pass. :)
<awaiting a less eventful wayland transition>


Yes, I have experienced similar issues on my workstation with a complex RAID/LVM configuration (no encryption, though). Certain filesystem features were not recognised and the system hangs upon rebooting. On the notebook the transition was smoother.
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