Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

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Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby timbgo » 2014-07-31 23:19

Gentle reader, feel free to skip straight to the corrected/completed version
of the the text below, just third post from here, or click here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=116472#p548548
=============================
This is a draft post, with a few unfinished parts (such as marked with "LINK
HERE"). However, I'm exhausted at this end of a several days woth of personal
research on the topic, and wish to post it that much, in minor part,
unfinished, to be able to have some rest afterwards. Allow typoes/other
errors/incompletenesses corrections/completions later. please!

I've read some (only some) of the discussions of the thread:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/20 ... html#00441

for the

Bug#727708: multiple init systems - formal resolution proposal

E.g., one message that I liked is this one:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/20 ... 00370.html

and I wish to thank the members of the Debian Technical Committee:

Steve Langasek

and

Ian Jackson

whose views and standpoints I admire and would follow wrt to the issue.

I wish to thank them for trying to bring reason into Debian.

The defeat is here though, to live with now for the huge majority of Debian
population, because their views haven't prevailed, and their honorable defence
of true GNU/Linux values has not been supported by other members of the
Committee.

It's there, the defeat to live with, for the majority, because the majority, on
average, are even less adept in understanding the Debian inner workings and
GNU/Linux generally, than Poor User Myself.

I maintain this Tips page:

LINK HERE

and otherwise I simply just use Debian, when I don't engage in compiling and
generally using my Gentoo machines.

I came to fuller understanding of what is going on in GNU/Linux because of
issues in Gentoo GNU/Linux that belong to the same categoty or the same global
event in GNU/Linux which is the trasition that also brought to the drastic
change in Debian GNU/Linux characterized by, or sybolized by that Techical
Committee vote.

The issues in Gentoo that spurred me into some two days worth of avid reading
on the event, ended in my writing of this post of Debian Forums, are fully
exposed on this page on Gentoo Forums, for those who care to delve into:

LINK HERE

However, non-expert me, couldn't possibly address the presence of such programs
that I denouce there as "thingisized" in my Debian box, simply for reasons of
my insufficient abilities in this field. So all this time I lived with them in
Debian.

But let me tell you how I came all the way to partially studying that thread.
Which is some four months old news really.

I decided I needed to know more on those issues, and, a strong antagonist of
blanket surveillance on electronic communication as I am, I went and studied:

http://www.mempo.org

and associated pages. which, since I first noticed it, has made progress that
fills me with hope!

And it started dawning on Poor User Myself why Mempo forks away from Wheezy and
not from Jessie which I use on my Tips page (I also have a:

LINK HERE

Jigdo.)

Also it dawned on me that I will have to try and join there, (well, hardly any
more then) as tester, and change such programs (as those "thingisized" that I
successfully removed from my Gentoo) from Jessie for the better that Mempo will
offer from Wheezy.

Then I started reading this thread on Gentoo Forums, that I recommend to any
and all GNU/Linux user willing to go through the effort of many hours worth of
reading of discussions:

When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-981256.html

It's 18 long pages of discussion, but it is also multiple links pointed at from
various of those pages of which I'd like to point these out:

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/01 ... the-world/

and

Wich distro are still commited to NOT using systemd?
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ ... not_using/

Being allergic to surveillance, isn't that sufficient reason to shake off that
control-parisitism at least for a while?, I went anonymous to study simply
(hopefully) unsurveilled.

So I actually tried to use, part of the time plain Tor from USB stick, and part
of the time the Debian's Tails (from https://www.tails-boum.org IIRC). Last
time I used Tails was before that systemd windozing of Debian event in March of
2014, probably months before that defeat.

I could use Tails on my system without a hitch back then, back then I could
post on Tails forums and show my posts there to friends if I wanted to, and the
feel of Debian's Tails, and of Debian's Tails pages was welcoming and
enjoyable, you felt they were genuine and honest, at least for the greatest
part of the team.

This time around, I first installed Tails on DVD and I expected that on my old Abit AT8-32X MBO
there won't be issues installing Tails on a USB stick and booting off from
it, just like back then...

...But lo and behold, in those, maybe seven, or more or less, months time since
I last used Tails, when I booted on that same system from USB stick... Lo and
behold, no such thing this time around. I could install Tails on my USB stick,
one or another, yes I could, but no way could I boot from it on that old system
that booted Debian GNU/Linux Tails Anonymity Live DVD/CD just fine some, maybe,
seven or more months ago! No way! I will recount, slowly.

And also the Debian's Tails' pages are soooo... soo dummy-oriented in this end
of July 2014 as if the Debian Tails team decided to forget about all that
Debian has ever been and to look like the other one OS which has always been
the worst of the worst from the stanpoint of freedom and I'd say honesty and
humanity, and which is: M$ Windows.

Debian's "anonimity" Live OS Tails has been windozed.

Everything is GUI based. Whatever happens is not told to the user. In vain I
searched for the reason why, in the FAQ, no mention there, well no real mention
of how to install Tails to boot on old systems, who cares! It's just like
Windoze dropped all of their XP users, the windozed (verb, passive) Tails have
to stick to the best windozed OS in the world labes, that I give it now in this
article, and similarly ditch any old MBO, and not tell those users with old
MBO's the howto.

But anyway, I wouldn't anymore care now for Tails, I don't think, so if any of
you newfangled windozed Tails team are reading this, it's too late.

Here's why. I don't think you can go back from that much apostasy, I wish you
could, and indeed I wish I am wrong in my statement and that you indeed would
revert to Freedom, the GNU/Linux Freedom of the Free Open Source Software...

But I'm afraid you can't. It's too late. It's like the cancer in advanced
stage, an invisible moral one, the historical one of Billy the Bandit Gates and
his Gang who sowed tricks and legalese on ignorant (and lazy, true) masses to
plunder and enslave a great chunk of the world of computing of the planet
Earth; it is the invisible moral cancer of all those ugly (on the inside)
greedy and false people who grow moneys in their hearts like, say, Google and
their likes. How it caught you, I don't know. I know it makes me so sad,
because I love GNU/Linux. I have bevieved in it, I still believe in it, just
not in the apostates' hands.

All the non-EFI MBOs are ditched by Tails just like XP by M$.

I have other system in my SOHO, but I like to use my old system to access the
internet. And my Abit AT8-32X system is non-EFI, so it couldn't possibly boot,
not with any of the for-dummy instructions available on the current Tails
pages. Because the Tails from my DVD installed on my USB stick the EFI-only
capable Tails on the stick. No stories told, pure GUI-only instructions there.
It's soooo... sooo.... (I don't want to say bad words) ...non-GNU, non-moral,
non-honest. It's soo false!

Another thing, that makes the windozing of the Debian Tails complete is, of
course, the, some of the readers guessed it, didn't they, the poetteningware!

The great destructor's ware, his own, of all things GNU, from the inside, with
all due GPL, or LGPL or some dual label or what not, insignia, the one and only
Lennart Poettering's:

systemD

"D" purposefully capitalized, such as in the D-Day, "D" for decision, and,
sadly, "D" for destruction.

I also remember I tested, the Tails DVD, for how it would install FFmpeg, by
which I most certainly mean the allegedly (by the impostors, as some of us
believe they are, read on) "obsolete" ffmpeg from http://www.FFmpeg.org (people from
what and who they are I couldn't care less, as long as their program is not
imposed on me, but it's people from http://www.libav.com maybe, I really don't know,
just their program is avconv, and impostors they are, because of the
following)...

I removed some, and added this line in /etc/apt/sources.list a line similar to,
not exactly same, but only similar to this:

deb http://deb-multimedia.org/pub/deb-mm wheezy main

(I don't remember exactly because I'm writing this two days after the event)
The line was correct, because I was able to fetch and install the key from that
Christian Marillat's non-official Debian multimedia repo, pls. see my Tips:

LINK HERE

and apt-get update. But...

...But, when I issued the command:

apt-get install ffmpeg

then what it wanted to install, was not the ffmpeg from the
deb-multimedia.org, no.

It wanted to install the libav-tools and their associated packages.

Isn't that being impostors? Their program is not ffmpeg, but avconv.

I already had such issue in Gentoo:

LINK HERE

But it must be the dear Schmoog that's taking over and financing these
underhanded deals and behavior. Such things would never have happened in Free
GNU/Linux.

The good programs, the pure programs, the true free programs created/compiled
by great people like the FFmpeg team, like the Grsecurity/Pax Spender and Pax
Team geniuses, like Christian Marillat of deb-multimedia.org, those are
certainly not financed by Schmoog, not Red Hat, nor any such entity that
conceal and promote in the decision process invisible to the Free GNU/Linux
community in a state of near collapse of its true value, the community to which
we all still belong, no, these shiny honest programs are certainly not helped
in any way by any of such entities that conceal and promote in their hierarchy
the will and the decisions of just a few who manipulate these events, such as
this windozing of GNU/Linux Debian Jessie event.

So, I'm afraid, Tails is dead for me, unless there are some huge changes in the
opposite direction to the ones I just related to you above.

And, hope I still have in my heart fro Debian, but only if one of the two can
be accomplished.

Either Mempo pulls truly off and stands up on its feet, which if it happens, my
joy will be immense, the preferable outcome.

Or someone helps me figure out how to revert form non-systemd in my Jessie, and
keeep on with my Grsecurity Tip, as all these months for almost one year now,
the comforting outcome.

I'm betting on Mempo, and I think I'll try and become a tester.


Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia,
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr

publictimestamp.org/ptb/PTB-21260 sha256 2014-07-31 21:01:46 UTC
E412D171157979E215F7354748BABF3FE01773D004AD0E75DF6CAA075808F294
Last edited by timbgo on 2014-08-01 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Posts: 265
Joined: 2013-04-14 12:17

Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby dasein » 2014-08-01 00:17

Moved to Offtopic
User avatar
dasein
 
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Joined: 2011-03-04 01:06
Location: Terra Incantationum

Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby timbgo » 2014-08-01 08:26

Code: Select all
On 2014-08-01 01:25, miro.rovis wrote:
> On 2014-08-01 01:10, miro.rovis wrote:
>> I hope this thread is still accepting replies.
>> I have written a text[...]
[snip]
>> [...]I am planning to post it
>> on:
>> Debian Development
>> http://forums.debian.net/viewforum.php?f=19
>> right after successful sending of this mail.
>
> And it is there.
[snip]
> Here it is, at the time of this writing:
>
> Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux
> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=116472

The pointer message shows up on:

http://www.deb-multimedia.org/lurker/me ... 62.en.html

as well.

There, and not here on FFmpeg mailing list archives (
https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-use ... 22782.html
a fact to which I have no complaints against), it can be seen that I sent it
to:

To: FFmpeg user questions
CC: vorlon, ijackson, dmo-discussion

However, in the Debian Forums, while no server... ehrm... fluctuations
happened, as last time on Gentoo Forums, pls. see:

https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-use ... 21025.html
in bottom:

Wow, what an amazing coincidence, the gentoo forums are down.
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ ... gentoo.org

, it has been moved from the Debian Development section
into the Offtopic section,

where it currently is,

and which I feel as an affront.

For which reason, I am making just one public plea for it to be returned back
to the Debian Development section where I believe it belongs.

I understand that people who couldn't talk reason into the other apostatizing
members of the Debian Technical Commitee and others in among the Debian
leadership who had been pushing the Debain Jessie that way very probably can do
little for returning my post where it belongs, into the Debian Development
section,

but please, Ian Jackson and Steve Langasek, can you help?

As well as you, Dasein, who I believe are Osamu Aoke, the man of the Debian
Reference tutorial, which I read parts of and really enjoyed, could you revert
from your "Moved to Offtopic" decision as can currently be seen here:

Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=116472#p548497

could you please, Osamu Aoke?

============================================================

I believe I am making no mistake in my sending to all the mentioned recipients
(I'm also adding Jan O. Kechel from publictimestamp.org, pls. see below) along
with posting this text on the, currently Offtopic, but hopefully back to Debian
Development section, my new Debian Forums topic: "Defeat and Hope for
GNU/Linux".

Another anti-censorship measure of mine that I deployed in my publishing of my
new Debian Forums topic: "Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux" first post was use of
the, let's give the result to the public:

http://publictimestamp.org/index.pl?pas ... id=1236770

The file itself, which tallies with the one published on Debian Forums, just
without any HTML and typical forums' formatting, you can check at:

http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/gnu/pts/

I will next only correct those typoes and replenish the text with the missing
links, but apart from a pointer to the new, completed text that I will insert
at the very top of the first post of my new Debian Forums topic: "Defeat and
Hope for GNU/Linux", I won't change that now old document.

I will be here for both deb-multimedia.org and FFmpeg mailing lists, as well as
others addressed in these texts, to review possible follow-ups, and reply, or,
as necessary, provide further information/opinion/other.

Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
--
publictimestamp.org/ptb/PTB-21263 sha256 2014-08-01 06:01:46
918F785A0E5033039EE481AB6827DD7837765A07DFBF9B13300D7B14DF51F56B
timbgo
 
Posts: 265
Joined: 2013-04-14 12:17

Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby timbgo » 2014-08-01 10:04

Below is the corrected/completed version of the first post.
======================================
I've read some (only some) of the discussions of the thread:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/20 ... html#00441

for the

Bug#727708: multiple init systems - formal resolution proposal

E.g., one message that I liked is this one:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/20 ... 00370.html

and I wish to thank the members of the Debian Technical Committee:

Steve Langasek

and

Ian Jackson

whose views and standpoints I admire and would follow wrt to the issue.

I wish to thank them for trying to bring reason into Debian.

The defeat is here though, to live with now for the huge majority of Debian
population, because their views haven't prevailed, and their honorable defence
of true GNU/Linux values has not been supported by other members of the
Committee.

It's there, the defeat to live with, for the majority, because the majority, on
average, are even less adept in understanding the Debian inner workings and
GNU/Linux generally, than Poor User Myself.

I maintain this Tips page:

Grsecurity/Pax installation on Debian GNU/Linux
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=108616

and otherwise I simply just use Debian, when I don't engage in compiling and
generally using my Gentoo machines.

I came to fuller understanding of what is going on in GNU/Linux because of
issues in Gentoo GNU/Linux that belong to the same category or the same global
event in GNU/Linux which is the trasition that also brought to the drastic
change in Debian GNU/Linux characterized by, or sybolized by that Techical
Committee vote.

Some of the issues in Gentoo that spurred me into some two days worth of avid
reading on the event, ended in this my writing of this post on Debian Forums,
are fully exposed on this page on Gentoo Forums, for those who care to delve
into:

Uninstalling dbus and *kits (to Unfacilitate Remote Seats)
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-992146.html

However, non-expert me, couldn't possibly address the presence of such programs
that I denouce there as "thingisized" in my Debian box, simply for reasons of
my insufficient abilities in this field. So all this time I lived with them in
Debian.

But let me tell you how I came all the way to partially studying that thread.
Which is some four months old news really.

I decided I needed to know more on those issues, and, a strong opponent of
blanket surveillance on electronic communications as I am, I went and studied:

mempo.org

and associated pages. which, since I first noticed it, has made progress that
fills me with hope!

And it started dawning on Poor User Myself why Mempo forks away from Wheezy and
not from Jessie which I use for compiling Grsec-enabled packages that I post
links to on my Grsecurity Tips page.

(I also have a Tip:
Scripts to automate jigdo download
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=110503
)

Also it dawned on me that I will have to try and join there, (well, hardly any
more then) as tester, and replace such programs (as those "thingisized" that I
successfully removed from my Gentoo) from Jessie for the better ones that Mempo
will (hopefully) offer from Wheezy.

Then I started reading this thread on Gentoo Forums, that I recommend to any
and all GNU/Linux user willing to go through the effort of many hours worth of
reading of discussions:

When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-981256.html

It's 18 long pages of discussion, but it is also multiple links pointed at from
various of those pages of which I'd like to point these out:

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/01 ... the-world/

and

Wich distro are still commited to NOT using systemd?
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ ... not_using/

Being allergic to surveillance (isn't that sufficient reason to shake off that
control-parisitism at least for a while?), I went anonymous to simply study
(hopefully) unsurveilled.

So I actually tried to use, part of the time plain Tor from USB stick, and part
of the time the Debian's Tails (from https://tails.boum.org/). Last
time I used Tails was before that systemd windozing of Debian event in March of
2014, probably months before that defeat.

I could use Tails on my system without a hitch back then, back then I could
post on Tails forums and show my posts there to friends if I wanted to, and the
feel of Debian's Tails, and of Debian's Tails pages was welcoming and
enjoyable, you felt they were genuine and honest, at least for the greatest
part of the team.

This time around, I first installed Tails on DVD and I expected that on my old
Abit AT8-32X MBO there won't be issues installing Tails on a USB stick and
booting off from it, just like back then...

...But lo and behold, in those, maybe seven, or more or less, months time since
I last used Tails, when I booted on that same system from USB stick... Lo and
behold, no such thing this time around. I could install Tails on my USB stick,
one or another of my sticks, yes I could, but no way could I boot from it on
that old system that booted Debian GNU/Linux Tails Anonymity Live DVD/CD just
fine some, maybe, seven or more months ago! No way! I will recount, slowly.

And also the Debian's Tails' pages are soooo... soo dummy-oriented in this end
of July 2014 as if the Debian Tails team decided to forget about all that
Debian has ever been and to look and feel, and become, like the other one OS
which has always been the worst of the worst from the stanpoint of freedom and
I'd say honesty and humanity, and which is: M$ Windows.

Debian's "anonimity" Live OS Tails has been windozed.

Everything is GUI based. Whatever happens is not told to the user. In vain I
searched for the reason why, in the FAQ, no mention there, well no real mention
of how to install Tails to boot on old systems, who cares! It's: just like
Windoze dropped all of their XP users, the windozed (verb, passive) Tails have
to stick to the best windozed OS in the world label, that I give it now in this
article, and similarly ditch any old MBO, and not tell those users with old
MBO's the howto.

But anyway, I wouldn't anymore care now for Tails, I don't think, so if any of
you newfangled windozed Tails team are reading this, it's too late.

Here's why. I don't think you can go back from that much apostasy, I wish you
could, and indeed I wish I am wrong in my statement and that you indeed would
revert to Freedom, the GNU/Linux Freedom of the Free Open Source Software...

But I'm afraid you can't. It's too late. It's like the cancer in advanced
stage, an invisible moral one, the historical one of Billy the Bandit Gates and
his Gang who sowed tricks and legalese on ignorant (and lazy, true) masses to
plunder and enslave a great chunk of the world of computing of the planet
Earth; it is the invisible moral cancer of all those ugly (on the inside)
greedy and false people who grow moneys in their hearts like, say, Google and
their likes. How it caught you, I don't know. I know it makes me so sad,
because I love GNU/Linux. I have bevieved in it, I still believe in it, just
not in the apostates' hands.

All the non-EFI MBOs are ditched by Tails just like XP by M$.

I have other systems in my SOHO, but I like to use my old systems to access the
internet. And my Abit AT8-32X system is non-EFI, so it couldn't possibly boot,
not with any of the for-dummy instructions available on the current Tails
pages. Because the Tails from my DVD installed on my USB stick the EFI-only
capable Tails on the stick. No stories told, pure GUI-only instructions there.
It's soooo... sooo.... (I don't want to say bad words) ...non-GNU, non-moral,
non-honest. It's soo false!

Another thing, that makes the windozing of the Debian Tails complete is, of
course, the, some of the readers guessed it, didn't they, the poetteningware!

The great destructor's ware, his own, of all things GNU, from the inside, with
all due GPL, or LGPL or some dual label or what not, insignia, the one and only
Lennart Poettering's:

systemD

"D" purposefully capitalized, such as in the D-Day, "D" for decision, and,
sadly, "D" for destruction.

I also remember I tested, the Tails DVD, for how it would install FFmpeg, by
which I most certainly mean the allegedly (declared such by the impostors, as
some of us believe they are, read on) "obsolete" ffmpeg from http://www.FFmpeg.org
(people from where and who they are I couldn't care less, as long as their
program is not imposed on me, but it's people from http://www.libav.com maybe, I
really don't know, just their program is avconv, and impostors they are,
because of the following)...

I removed some, and added a line in /etc/apt/sources.list similar to, not
exactly same, but only similar to this:

Code: Select all
deb http://deb-multimedia.org/pub/deb-mm wheezy main


(I don't remember exactly because I'm writing this two days after the event)
The line was correct, because I was able to fetch and install the key from that
Christian Marillat's non-official Debian multimedia repo, pls. see my Tip:

How to Use the Arguably Superior Deb-Multimedia Repository
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=111905

and did 'apt-get update' which correctly connected to deb-multimedia.org
repo. But...

...But, when I issued the command:

Code: Select all
apt-get install ffmpeg


then what it wanted to install, was not the ffmpeg from the
deb-multimedia.org, no.

It wanted to install the libav-tools and their associated packages.

Isn't that being impostors? Their program is not ffmpeg, but avconv.

I already had such issue in Gentoo:

Libav (Avconv) Imposition on Users who want FFmpeg
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-989196.html

But it must be the dear 'do no evil' Schmoog or some of the category (see
below) that's taking over and financing these underhanded deals and behavior.
Such things would never have happened in Free GNU/Linux.

The good programs, the pure programs, the true free programs created/compiled
by great people like the FFmpeg team, like the Grsecurity/Pax Spender and Pax
Team geniuses, like Christian Marillat of deb-multimedia.org, those are
certainly not financed by Schmoog, not Red Hat, nor any such entity that
conceal and promote in the decision process invisible to the Free GNU/Linux
community in a state of near collapse of its true value, the community to which
we all still belong... No, these shiny honest programs are certainly not helped
in any way by any of such entities that conceal and promote in their hierarchy
the will and the decisions of just a few who manipulate these events, such as
this windozing of GNU/Linux Debian Jessie event.

So, I'm afraid, Tails is dead for me, unless there are some huge changes in the
opposite direction to the ones I just related to you above.

And, hope I still have in my heart fro Debian, but only if one of the two can
be accomplished.

Either Mempo pulls truly off and stands up on its feet, which if it happens, my
joy will be immense, the preferable outcome.

Or someone helps me figure out how to revert form non-systemd in my Jessie, and
keeep on with my Grsecurity Tip, as all these months for almost one year now,
the consolatory outcome.

I'm betting on Mempo, and I think I'll try and become a tester.

Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia,
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr

publictimestamp.org/ptb/PTB-21260 sha256 2014-07-31 21:01:46 UTC
E412D171157979E215F7354748BABF3FE01773D004AD0E75DF6CAA075808F294
timbgo
 
Posts: 265
Joined: 2013-04-14 12:17

Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby reinob » 2014-08-01 10:51

Sorry but this is quite incoherent and generally unreadable.

In short: make your own distribution. Nobody can stop you doing that, and nobody is forcing you to use Debian or SystemD or whatever.

And yes, this is an off-topic discussion. This is a user-to-user forum.
reinob
 
Posts: 752
Joined: 2014-06-30 11:42

Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby arochester » 2014-08-01 11:03

1) There is no need to publish a "draft" post. If it not finalized, just don't publish it.

2) Think about the readers. Use the acronym KISS. Keep it short and simple.

3) If you don't, the readers will use the acronym tl;dr. Too long; didn't read.
arochester
 
Posts: 1577
Joined: 2010-12-07 19:55

Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby ratcheer » 2014-08-01 12:04

Yes, I am generally in favor of your position(s). But, tl;dr.

Tim
ratcheer
 
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Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby timbgo » 2014-08-01 13:42

Thanks for replying
reinob, arochester and ratcheer
I have nothing new to add, my position being unchanged.

Miroslav Rovis,
Zagreb, Croatia

The file Deb_no_LPware_140801.txt corresponding to the main, corrected
text, having, at the current time, the address:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=116472#p548548
( Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux )
, and which can be downloaded (and GPG verified) from:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/gnu/pts/
has Publictimestamp # 1236836
--
publictimestamp.org/ptb/PTB-21265 sha256 2014-08-01 12:01:45
52D283E3D4FFB20C6DA2583B26C6C0F8BB3DE652A850C898D7710267DDDF2D8E
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Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby dasein » 2014-08-01 16:21

Enough already.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17592

(Just sayin.)
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Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby timbgo » 2014-08-02 13:24

timbgo wrote:And, hope I still have in my heart fro Debian, but only if one of the two can be accomplished.

Either Mempo pulls truly off and stands up on its feet, which if it happens, my
joy will be immense, the preferable outcome.

In my new post on my Tip:
Grsecurity/Pax installation on Debian GNU/Linux
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=108616&start=30#p548760
you can read that I am somewhat doubtful on Mempo, after more consideration... (read there who wishes to)
Also here:
Tips on Grsecurity installation for Debian newbies
https://forums.grsecurity.net/viewtopic ... 303#p14303
I offer more insight and ask for more...

timbgo wrote:Or someone helps me figure out how to revert form non-systemd in my Jessie, and
keeep on with my Grsecurity Tip, as all these months for almost one year now,
the consolatory outcome.

...[and ask for more] advice (but no nit picking advice pls.! Just do not bother about me, just: put me in your ignore list in that case!)

Thanks for bearing with me.
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
--
publictimestamp.org/ptb/PTB-21273 sha256 2014-08-02 12:01:45
C8792654DB0D24F510F4EAA4C2A14B657F2C1B1009B22C71C5F0F50DC939E098
========= cut out all underneath if checking hashes ========
File Deb_no_LPware_140802.txt, pasted above to compose the entire post, has Publictimestamp # 123696
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Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby buntunub » 2014-09-16 23:54

This thread is incoherent. Sorry, but tl;dr. I think you are going on about the TCCEs decision to move to Systemd for Jessie+?
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Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby RU55EL » 2014-09-17 01:28

if [ -f tl;dr ]; then
OP >> ignore.list
fi
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Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby RU55EL » 2014-09-17 19:16

chaosesqueteam wrote:I was able to understand what he was saying and feel the same way: we have been betrayed.

He is absolutely correct.
original Poster: don't let these non English speakers get you down. Anyone with a grasp of the language and a knowledge of unix and Linux history gets you.


The point is that the OP would get his posts read by a lot more people if they were clear and concise. Going on and on and on, in an unclear manner, usually results in people skipping the post.

I have recently reviewed the following linked post, the original poster might benefit from applying some of the ideas expressed in it.

Debian Code of Conduct

Try to be concise
Keep in mind that what you write once will be read by hundreds of persons. Writing a short email means people can understand the conversation as efficiently as possible. When a long explanation is necessary, consider adding a summary.

Try to bring new arguments to a conversation so that each mail adds something unique to the thread, keeping in mind that the rest of the thread still contains the other messages with arguments that have already been made.
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Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby goulo » 2014-09-17 19:30

FWIW, I agree that many of Miro's posts are too long and full of rambling tangents. It's not that I can't understand them, but that it simply starts to feel not worth the time to read them: they are often repetitive, and making statements about Linux, systemd, etc with which I already agree, so I naturally tend to skip over the "preaching to the choir".

For purely "philosophical" posts about the disturbing recent trends in Linux and all that stuff (with which I agree), I guess "long and rambling" might be acceptable/OK. (But indeed be aware that you are reducing your readership by writing unusually long rambling posts.)

But for the many concrete technical posts, which are intended to give concrete helpful technical info (e.g. "to remove systemd, I did this; to remove dbus, I did that; here are the remaining problems to solve; etc"), please "Stay On Target" and focused! :)
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Re: Defeat and Hope for GNU/Linux

Postby dezingg » 2014-09-20 23:10

I agree that it seems to be an important issue, but in my opinion the post is way too long with too many personal remarks. I still haven't read the whole post. Sorry.
WinXP Compaq Presario overwritten with Wheezy.
WinVista laptop sometimes runs DebianLive. (Hoping to setup a USB HD with persistence.)
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