When are we going to have debian run on android smartphones

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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby josephg » 2016-08-30 16:52

debiman wrote:
65654 wrote:android = 0 security

this is a very simplified statement that is factually incorrect.
the android os is very security- and permissions-oriented - but then it goes and gives those permissions away to apps, most of all google, and does other unspeakable things...

which still means "android = 0 security" ;)
or even worse, as users are lulled into a false sense of security!
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby arochester » 2016-10-01 12:25

It has been a few weeks since the last post on this thread but I came across this: How to easily install Debian Linux on your Android phones and tabs: No root required

I am still left with the question "Why would you want too?"
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby debiman » 2016-10-02 20:13

arochester wrote:I am still left with the question "Why would you want to?"

first of all, this still seems to be one of those "install linux on top of android" apps.

to answer your question, i would love to be able to use sshfs on my phone.
watch movies from my home server, or even listen to music, without having to jump through fiery hoops.

but somehow i doubt whether the solution you linked will make that possible.

edit:
where's the link to an actual .apk?
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby 65654 » 2016-10-07 20:55

arochester wrote: I am still left with the question "Why would you want too?"


I thought the answer to this would be obvious really.
The tools provided in Debian are not in android.
Also would be nice to ssh into smartphone and you have a linux system layout in it that makes sense unlike android.
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby pylkko » 2016-10-08 18:00

The answer is just as obvious, I think. Who would want a smart phone where the wifi module or maybe even touch screen cannot be used because only non-free, non-public proprietary kernel modules and firmware exist for their use? What about the fact that essentially no usable virtual keyboard exists in Debian? How would you even use any graphical interface? Remotely?
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby 65654 » 2016-10-08 21:18

It's been a while since initial post was made.
For those interested, these are the points I've found out since first post was made.
Ubuntu touch is doing a very good job on this direction and I've had it installed on a Google Nexus 5 phone.
Although I must say Ubuntu touch GUI needs some polishing the command line tools are there and it's Debian running on a smartphone.
They are making progress with snap packages but will take a while till that catches up mainstream.
For the time being I've settled for a Sailfish OS 2 phone, which has android layer emulation capability, which basically means you can run android apps on it with an underlaying linux system.
GUI also in Sailfish OS 2 is brilliant, in my opinion looks better than an Iphone or Android phone but command line nowhere near as good as Ubuntu Touch.
If Ubuntu touch had support for android apps, would definetly jump boat move onto Ubuntu touch.
Unfortunately given the commerciality of android, certain apps are made just for it so the compatibility layer might be needed for time being till snap catches up.
But also adding android compatibility layer could be detrimental to the project because we want ubuntu on the phone not android so this is their choice to decide.
Nonetheless, I'm still looking to buy an Ubuntu touch phone rather than running it on Nexus 5 because looks very promising and also to support the project itself.
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby pylkko » 2016-10-09 07:03

Ubuntu Touch is not Debian, although you claim so. It does not use anything from Debian, not the package repositories, not the kernel, not X/wayland, essentially nothing. It also, AFAIK, does not offer a source repository for the applications at all.

When you say "command line tools" you can install busybox on android - although this requires rooting the phone I believe.
I believe Canonical has in a nofficial statement said that UT will never use adroid apps.
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby 65654 » 2016-10-09 10:12

Maybe I did not make myself clear.
You're right on what you say about the programs used on Ubuntu Touch are not the same as a linux distro.
But the layout of system is very close to a real linux system.
You can enable repositories and apt-get install many things.

And a linux distribution/command line is not just busybox.
vim, mutt, cryptsetup etc.
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby pylkko » 2016-10-09 11:36

I'd say that if the sources are not available, then it is not a 'real linux system', to borrow your expression. And you point about enabling legacy x apps from ubuntu repos with apt-get while technically true is...well, last I checked these x apps were almost useless on a phone due to UI and the act its self would prevent future updates of the OS including security. Given how strongly it is based on android (adb and these things), how much code is closed and not free, that UT is nore like Android-based than Debian-based. But this is not the point, there is a larger issue at hand and it addresses your OP. Not only are too many hardware components unusable with freely available code (I believe thetelephone modems all require closed non-free firmware), most programs designed to be used with X are just horrible on a phone. Because of these reasons I would expect Debian to be about the last OS to use on a phone. Unless that phone were used very atypically, say as a server.
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby 65654 » 2016-10-09 12:33

I do agree with your last post.
No I'm not talking about running server on phone.
And when I speak about ubuntu I mean it's done a better job than others so far, and that was the whole point of original question running debian on a phone.
A linux system is not just X but other software that goes with it, running X or not is another question.
A linux system is meant to run off a keyboard, so touch will require new GUI.
Have you had a look at Sailfish os?
That is the original Maemo project which was based on Debian then mutilated to what it is now.
You might be right we'll never see Debian on smartphones but I personally would like to see it.
It does require a lot of work = true.
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby pylkko » 2016-10-09 14:19

I have experience with UT but not sailfish. But my understanding is that the actual gui layer of it is copyrighted, not free, meaning that UT cannot adopt it or significant parts of it without legal issues. Because of the nature of Debian Free Software Guidelines it would be really hard to make a phone OS. In other words, it not only requirws a lot of work, it requires so much more work than many other OS's that it wont make sense. It would be different altogether if some more open phone hardware were available
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby debiman » 2016-10-10 06:04

65654 wrote:Although I must say Ubuntu touch GUI needs some polishing the command line tools are there and it's Debian running on a smartphone.

it's definitely not debian, i think we covered that now.
i looked at ubuntu phone a while ago, read some articles, and also browsed the ubuntu forum section for Ubuntu phone/touch.
i don't remember the exact article anymore, but ubuntu phone is based on android much more than one would like.
the kernel is 100% android, for one, but also large parts of the UI are based on it afaiu.

about the command line tools:
does this actually work?
can you e.g. ssh into some other machine?
perchance, even use sshfs?

65654 wrote:You can enable repositories and apt-get install many things.

have you actually done this, with useful results, without breaking the install?
again, from my forages into ubuntu forum's touch/phone section, i was led to believe that this is is more than tricky.

and you have to understand, if even the fanbois over at UF are so critical, it really must mean something...
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby tomazzi » 2016-11-18 22:54

Well, I think that the only option is to actually use Android kernel - at least as a reference - or to use cyanogen_mod.

However, hardware support is only a tip of the iceberg - i.e. Debian does not have any UI suitable for touch screens - definitely Gnome is not there yet, most likely for a long time - i.e. Gnome project is focusing on handling high-resolution desktop interfaces as for now - every other desktop UI project is just focused on multi-monitor support or on just to get it working ...

Debian is still (and always was) a PC-server/PC-desktop project and nothing have changed as for now.

Even the ARM port of Debian have died some time ago (but also f.e. PowerPC) - it was effectively replaced by Raspbian, which actually has a *working* solution for ARM-based platforms and it uses almost 100% Debian source code... (excluding platform-dependand kernel patches)

So:
1. Debian needs a touch-screen driven UI in the first place...
2. Debian needs a *real* ARM support (emdebian project have died) - this can be relatively easily achieved by starting to talk with Raspbian people - who already have a working distribution - on ARM-based devices, that is: smartphones.

Regards.

Edit:
Or perhaps...
We can live without smartphones, which are impractical for every task one can imagine, maybe excluding dedicated web-apps which allows us to order a pizza...
;)
Odi profanum vulgus
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby RoyFokker » 2016-12-07 20:46

Yes, we need Debian to kludge desktop oriented software onto a smartphone. Sort of like what Microsoft did with Windows 8 -- but in reverse and with far more fail. But what FOSS zealot could give up the urge to make their phone into a barely useable paperweight in exchange for herr derr, SOFTWARE FREEDOM to make your hardware useless or nearly so.
Last edited by RoyFokker on 2016-12-07 22:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When are we going to have debian run on android smartpho

Postby RU55EL » 2016-12-07 21:49

tomazzi wrote:[...]Debian is still (and always was) a PC-server/PC-desktop project and nothing have changed as for now.[...]


That's my thinking. I think that GNU/Linux on a smart phone would be more in line with Ubuntu. Debian is an excellent desktop operating system...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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