Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby vbrummond » 2017-01-24 21:03

There was a ridiculous rift in the Linux community especially Debian over systemd. Bottom line is enterprise uses it, you need to know it.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby Segfault » 2017-01-24 21:13

Not so fast. First, somebody using it somewhere because they didn't have the choice does not mean much, does it? Second, there is an army of RHEL-6 installations all over the world and I hear sysadmins in charge of those resist upgrading to 7 for this very reason.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby bw123 » 2017-01-24 22:49

ok, let's play

Systemd is full of bugs ,


The whole distro is full of bugs, see:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo ... t=unstable

no one have a good idea how it works


85 million hits say NO ONE have a good idea how anything works in linux, see:

How Does Linux Work
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changed how linux by default works .


Since no one knows how it works by default, the added complexity shouldn't affect your mood this way.

But one question I have is, where would debian be today without systemd? What desktop environments would we have?

Would we all be using fluxbox or what?

p.s. I love fluxbox, but not on my little netbook
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby Segfault » 2017-01-24 22:54

All desktops run without systemd, although you need to use a fork if you want to use Gnome 3.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby bw123 » 2017-01-24 23:17

Code: Select all
# aptitude why libpam-systemd
i   kde-plasma-netbook Depends udisks2       
i A udisks2            Depends libpam-systemd
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby Segfault » 2017-01-24 23:20

bw123 wrote:
Code: Select all
# aptitude why libpam-systemd
i   kde-plasma-netbook Depends udisks2       
i A udisks2            Depends libpam-systemd

So you prove a systemd based distro has compiled KDE with systemd support. According to you Devuan and all other distros that run KDE without systemd do not exist?
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby bw123 » 2017-01-24 23:26

They seem to be up to kde 3? I could be wrong, I haven't tried it, but is that where debian would be without systemd?

https://devuan.org/os/packages/task-kde-desktop
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby Segfault » 2017-01-24 23:27

I do not run all those distros, but in Gentoo you can build the latest KDE/Plasma without systemd, so it definitely is not hard dependency. It is merely a build-time option.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby pedropt » 2017-01-25 00:38

I made today an upgrade from debian wheezy to devuan jessie , i had some problems fixing all the stuff , because the current kernel in devuan is 3.16 and i was already on 3.18 in wheezy , and mostly because of my nvidia proprietary drivers that if i install the drivers from wheezy repository where they say that my model should work , in reality does not work at all and hangs at login screen .
Well , after messing around with the current installed distribution to make it work i had to compile from source a new kernel 3.18 to be able to install my nvidia drivers from NVIDIA website . Now it is working very good the devuan , and this is a dual boot system i have here because there is a game i like to play on my very old XP eheheh .
Devuan desktop environment is XFCE4 .
Ah , yes , and i forgot to mention that this particular wheezy distro that i updated was a pentest distro from Kali , from now on i i will have to update my tools manually from git , so i dont mess up with the OS and kali repository .
I really advice you all to check out devuan distro , is pretty good , light and without that systemd crap .

Note : i had to install kernel 3.18 from source because i have an hardware that only works after this kernel , a sound card , and i did not found a correct explanation on the web in how to compile its alsa driver in 3.16 , so this is the reason .
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby golinux » 2017-01-25 00:52

Segfault wrote:I do not run all those distros, but in Gentoo you can build the latest KDE/Plasma without systemd, so it definitely is not hard dependency. It is merely a build-time option.

That is most often the case.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby HuangLao » 2017-01-25 02:10

bw123 wrote:ok, let's play

Systemd is full of bugs ,


The whole distro is full of bugs, see:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo ... t=unstable

no one have a good idea how it works


85 million hits say NO ONE have a good idea how anything works in linux, see:

How Does Linux Work
Related Articles on How Does Linux Work. 85+ Million Visitors - Search Now.
About.com/How Does Linux Work

changed how linux by default works .


Since no one knows how it works by default, the added complexity shouldn't affect your mood this way.

But one question I have is, where would debian be today without systemd? What desktop environments would we have?

Would we all be using fluxbox or what?

p.s. I love fluxbox, but not on my little netbook


Ok game on. Look at Slackware (which I also use), we have KDE4, Xfce 4.12, all of the latest libraries etc... and no systemd, no PAM either. You are making the common mistake of thinking a program depends on systemd because of systemd. It is up to the distro packagers/maintainers on what something will depend. You can even have Gnome on Slack through a third party repo., MATE no problem either.

ref: http://www.droplinegnome.org/
https://mateslackbuilds.github.io/
http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/decembe ... -plasma-5/
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby Danielsan » 2017-01-25 03:30

I gave up with systemd, for me is garbage and it will be for ever but I want use Debian so I decided to tolerate it.

Sadly recently it was disclosure a serious bug but the systemd team tried to hide it and this is not really nice:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ot-exploit

I believe RMS doesn't care about systemd too much because the FSF is developing its own init system, I believe it is super cool but it still in development.

https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby phenest » 2017-01-31 18:53

Danielsan wrote:Sadly recently it was disclosure a serious bug but the systemd team tried to hide it and this is not really nice:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ot-exploit

Actually, it says they silently fixed it. It does not say they tried to hide it. It was fixed a year ago.

Danielsan wrote:I believe RMS doesn't care about systemd too much because the FSF is developing its own init system, I believe it is super cool but it still in development.

https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/

From that source:
It provides a replacement for the service-managing capabilities of SysV-init (or any other init) with a both powerful and beautiful dependency-based system with a convenient interface.

It doesn't say it's an init system.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby Danielsan » 2017-02-01 04:08

Phenest... :roll:

"Silently fixed" means they tried to not talk very much about a serious or an idiotic bug.

Sebastian Krahmer 2017-01-18 10:50:15 UTC
Apparently upstream failed to analyze the impact of this bug and so it was silently fixed.


Recently I read (unfortunately) the umpteenth interview to Poettering where, with the complicity of the interviewer, he was all the interview celebrating himself about systemd and other bad softwares he realized, what is it the point? He is the only one proud about systemd at the FSF they neither take it in consideration, so for they sysv-init still remain the official GNU init system and for these reason you can read: "(or any other init)"

:wink:
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian

Postby Segfault » 2017-02-01 14:57

There are many discussions on the net about systemd. They all get boring sooner or later. Lets add some spice here.

How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.

:twisted: :P :lol:
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