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I think these systemd discussions are just a waste of time, probably because we already have some specific distros. This goes pretty simple, if you don't like systemd don't use it.

Danielsan wrote:"Silently fixed" means they tried to not talk very much about a serious or an idiotic bug.

Why do they have to talk about it? So long as they fix it. You're making a big deal out of something that was fixed a year ago.

Danielsan wrote:Recently I read (unfortunately) the umpteenth interview to Poettering where ...

It sounds like you have a fixation. If you dislike it that much, go use a distro that doesn't have it.

phenest wrote:

Danielsan wrote:"Silently fixed" means they tried to not talk very much about a serious or an idiotic bug.

Why do they have to talk about it? So long as they fix it. You're making a big deal out of something that was fixed a year ago.

Danielsan wrote:Recently I read (unfortunately) the umpteenth interview to Poettering where ...

It sounds like you have a fixation. If you dislike it that much, go use a distro that doesn't have it.

Why do you want to talk sense? Are you one of them?

Segfault wrote:How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.

Good idea. It is way too long ago already that a person subscribed to this forum only to slam the OS because of systemd.

I think these systemd discussions are just a waste of time, probably because we already have some specific distros. This goes pretty simple, if you don't like systemd don't use it.

I don't use it anymore , i changed to Devuan Jessie , witch is a fork from debian and it is very stable .

How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.

I have doubts about that , however , iptables exist to avoid that , but by default no one configures iptables on their distros , witch means that the distro is accepting and sending everything without filter .

The first thing that a normal user of linux should do when install his linux box is :
-Check running services at startup and disable those that he does not use : samba , ntp , kerberus , etc ...
-Then check with netstat witch ports are opened and witch services are running them .

For last : configure a set of rules in iptables to accept only connections that were started by the linux machine .

This way , every port will be drop or be closed .

To be honest , no one does this steps , but comparing linux to windows , in windows after you install it , then is better you remove it next because you will be hacked for sure and there is nothing you can do to avoid it (except unplug network cable) , lol .

pedropt wrote:

I think these systemd discussions are just a waste of time, probably because we already have some specific distros. This goes pretty simple, if you don't like systemd don't use it.

I don't use it anymore , i changed to Devuan Jessie , witch is a fork from debian and it is very stable

Debian Stable works great for me, so I occasionally browse the Debian forum. If I didn't use it I'd be inclined to not bother browse the Debian forums. Which begs the question if you're not using Debian/systemd why are you reading/posting here and not just focussed upon Devuan's forum(s) (wherever that/they might be)?

ruffwoof wrote: Debian Stable works great for me, so I occasionally browse the Debian forum. If I didn't use it I'd be inclined to not bother browse the Debian forums. Which begs the question if you're not using Debian/systemd why are you reading/posting here and not just focussed upon Devuan's forum(s) (wherever that/they might be)?

Probably the same pathology that makes people obsess over what the gender of those is others sleep with or what colour their skin is.

pedropt wrote:

How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.

I have doubts about that , however , iptables exist to avoid that , but by default no one configures iptables on their distros , witch means that the distro is accepting and sending everything without filter .

I wish it was that simple. If this was true then Windows would not need anti-virus.

ruffwoof wrote: Debian Stable works great for me, so I occasionally browse the Debian forum. If I didn't use it I'd be inclined to not bother browse the Debian forums. Which begs the question if you're not using Debian/systemd why are you reading/posting here and not just focussed upon Devuan's forum(s) (wherever that/they might be)?

Devuan is mostly Debian -- most of the packages come directly from the Debian repositories. However, some of the packages have been reconfigured/recompiled to remove systemd dependencies. The Debian developers may have made it difficult to use an init system other than systemd, but that doesn't mean that people who've chosen not to use systemd aren't using Debian.

Phil

pcalvert wrote:...that doesn't mean that people who've chosen not to use systemd aren't using Debian.

Point being, they are using Debian to do their own thing, not unlike Mint, Ubuntu, et al in this respect. Carving systemd out of Debian does not constitute "using Debian" any more than taking the trans fat out of margarine makes it like "using butter."

I don't give much credence to the measure of Distrowatch...BUT...

In the last month, Debian has had an average of 1972 visits a day. It is placed at #2.
In the last month, Devuan has had an average of 72 visits a day. It is placed at #136.
That's 1,900 a day less and 134 places difference.

The sysinit/systemd argument doesn't seem to be at all important to the vast majority of people.

When Stretch becomes Stable there will possibly be an increase of interest in Debian. Then, Old Stable will have systemd, Stable will have systemd, Testing will have systemd and Unstable will have systemd.

If systemd is the "Biggest mistake ever made by Debian" it doesn't seem be be a very large or significant mistake. - If a mistake at all.

Just sayin'

arochester wrote:If systemd is the "Biggest mistake ever made by Debian" it doenn't seem be be a very large or significant mistake. - If a mistake at all.

Think Edsel, Pinto or DDT, Thalidomide yada, yada. Systemd is very much of a new and untested (by time) thing. But the lemmings jumped over the cliff anyway . . .

In the last month, Debian has had an average of 1972 visits a day. It is placed at #2.
In the last month, Devuan has had an average of 72 visits a day. It is placed at #136.
That's 1,900 a day less and 134 places difference.

It really means nothing. How many Debian users go to Distrowatch and click on Debian? Leave alone Devuan users.

acewiza wrote: Point being, they are using Debian to do their own thing, not unlike Mint, Ubuntu, et al in this respect. Carving systemd out of Debian does not constitute "using Debian" any more than taking the trans fat out of margarine makes it like "using butter."

So if I install Debian and then reconfigure it the way I want, it's not Debian anymore?

Phil

golinux? Is that the same golinux on the Devuan site?
A Devuan member since Feb 9, 2015 6:28pm https://git.devuan.org/golinux
and a Devuan Developer https://devuan.org/os/team/
---That'll be unbiased then?

(It's a myth that lemmings jump over a cliff e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming .)

arochester wrote:golinux? Is that the same golinux on the Devuan site?
A Devuan member since Feb 9, 2015 6:28pm https://git.devuan.org/golinux
and a Devuan Developer https://devuan.org/os/team/
---That'll be unbiased then?

(It's a myth that lemmings jump over a cliff e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming .)

Isn't that obvious? Not claiming to be unbiased. Just have a point of view. But your response is a red herring and missing the point I was trying to make.

by pcalvert » So if I install Debian and then reconfigure it the way I want, it's not Debian anymore?

Phil

No, that should be obvious. Debian is open source, and not only can you configure
it any way you want, you also can modify it, etc.
But if , after configuring, modifying, adding to or taking away, what ever, when
the persons start calling it another distro, and distributing it ,using a new name, then it is no longer Debian,...this applies to Devuan, Ubunto, Linux Mint, etc,.... All are based on Debian yes, but they have been changed significantly, and the developers have chosen to use another name, thus creating another distro.

If you are using Debian, and configure it to suit your needs, it is still Debian.
When you start mixing in packages ,etc that are from other distros, it is no longer Debian, but a mix. known as a "frankendebian",... https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

There is nothing wrong with developing another distro , for what ever reasons,
in this case , the people that are developing Devuan , did not like the idea of Debian using systemd, they think it is a mistake, so they started what is called a "fork", and now it is another distro, based on Debian, but without systemd.

Personally I don't think the developers of Debian just accidentally started using systemd instead of systemV , by mistake, I think there was a lot of planning involved, and they moved into systemd intentionally, not by mistake.

GarryRicketson wrote:If you are using Debian, and configure it to suit your needs, it is still Debian. When you start mixing in packages, etc that are from other distros, it is no longer Debian, but a mix. known as a "frankendebian",... https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

I think you misquote DontBreakDebian. A frankendebian mixes packages between releases, not distros. Don't mix jessie with stretch or sid. I have packages installed on my Debian jessie system from both MX-15 and BunsenLabs distros precisely because they are designed with and for jessie. They specifically use the repos for jessie as their base, build packages with the jessie build system, and follow Debian conventions for packaging. Not any less Debian than compiling it myself or any harder than using jessie-backports.

pcalvert wrote:

acewiza wrote: Point being, they are using Debian to do their own thing, not unlike Mint, Ubuntu, et al in this respect. Carving systemd out of Debian does not constitute "using Debian" any more than taking the trans fat out of margarine makes it like "using butter."

So if I install Debian and then reconfigure it the way I want, it's not Debian anymore?

Of course it is. But if you install Devuan, it never was Debian - before you even boot into it the first time, no matter how much you want it to be.

acewiza wrote:But if you install Devuan, it never was Debian - before you even boot into it the first time, no matter how much you want it to be.

Devuan is what Debian was before It went to the dark side.