Scheduled Maintenance: We are aware of an issue with Google, AOL, and Yahoo services as email providers which are blocking new registrations. We are trying to fix the issue and we have several internal and external support tickets in process to resolve the issue. Please see: viewtopic.php?t=158230

 

 

 

Debian buster: are you testing?

User discussion about Debian Development, Debian Project News and Announcements. Not for support questions.
Message
Author
RichardWurth
Posts: 2
Joined: 2018-11-20 01:15

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#16 Post by RichardWurth »

I'm testing on the alpha 3 iso, default desktop, some config is messed up somehow - my root account isn't set up right. I didn't do anything. I go in a terminal and do 'su' to switch to root, and it doesn't update my path to include sbin directory. I get output like this when trying apt upgrade:

After this operation, 262 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Reading changelogs... Done
Preconfiguring packages ...
dpkg: warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
dpkg: warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
dpkg: error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable
Note: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)

Works ok if I do 'su -l' instead. I wonder if anyone else encounters this

User avatar
4D696B65
Site admin
Site admin
Posts: 2696
Joined: 2009-06-28 06:09
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#17 Post by 4D696B65 »

RichardWurth wrote: Works ok if I do 'su -l' instead. I wonder if anyone else encounters this
This has been talked about for weeks.

User avatar
GarryRicketson
Posts: 5644
Joined: 2015-01-20 22:16
Location: Durango, Mexico

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#18 Post by GarryRicketson »

Works ok if I do 'su -l' instead. I wonder if anyone else encounters this
Yes, it is kind of old news, all though it had been submitted as a bug, it is not a bug, it is a feature :
Tue, 31 Jul 2018 09:18:06 +0200
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=904988
I thought I (or something) had hosed my system, but it turns out this
change is by design. After reading more closely the changelog I read

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=90483

and

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=833256

> To me this mostly seems like a(nother) case of "always use 'su -',
> never su".


Feel free to close this bug, sorry for the noise.
=====

I think you need to use

Code: Select all

su -
now, have you tried that ?
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2018-11-20 02:24, edited 1 time in total.

RichardWurth
Posts: 2
Joined: 2018-11-20 01:15

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#19 Post by RichardWurth »

4D696B65 wrote:
RichardWurth wrote: Works ok if I do 'su -l' instead. I wonder if anyone else encounters this
This has been talked about for weeks.
first post on this forum. tx admin

@Garry - Interesting, thanks

jnhollow
Posts: 1
Joined: 2018-12-02 17:55

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#20 Post by jnhollow »

Had the same problem with "su -". Took awhile to figure that out.
I've been running Buster for more than a year and everything has been very smooth for me, except when I personally killed it and had to restore. That's when that "su -" caused problems. I did a minimal installation with only the system utilities and then proceeded to install only what I needed. Using the Mate desktop, LibreOffice, 2 network printers (32 bit) etc. I am now using it for my everyday system.
It's fast and clean.

User avatar
llivv
Posts: 5340
Joined: 2007-02-14 18:10
Location: cold storage

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#21 Post by llivv »

I was scolded for having to ask about the path errors as well ..
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=138837
you may want to read the man page for su
than double/triple check it after buster release.

I use a lot of different su options and have read a lot of different versions of the su man page.

The path issues are a result of an inititive call [USR Merge] which makes a lot of sense when using systemd, probably. :?:
UsrMerge
not so much when using sysv. :shock:
And there is current discussion regarding package builds with usr merge issues and building packages on merged usr build machines. check it out on the boot list if interested.

Bulkley see package usrmerge for a couple hints why stretch don't upgrade to easy to buster, yet.
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.

milomak
Posts: 2158
Joined: 2009-06-09 22:20
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#22 Post by milomak »

i can' emember why i've always used su -
Desktop: A320M-A PRO MAX, AMD Ryzen 5 3600, GALAX GeForce RTX™ 2060 Super EX (1-Click OC) - Sid, Win10, Arch Linux, Gentoo, Solus
Laptop: hp 250 G8 i3 11th Gen - Sid
Kodi: AMD Athlon 5150 APU w/Radeon HD 8400 - Sid

User avatar
llivv
Posts: 5340
Joined: 2007-02-14 18:10
Location: cold storage

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#23 Post by llivv »

su -
the gnu form is
su --login
one man page recommends gnu on linux

another su man pages stated
-c is discouraged #OK :?: '

ok -c'<command>' may have detrimental affects in some cases depending on how a package is built <important>
or in some other shell or a set default path that is not posix
or the newest posix
Do they change posix? if yes, why?

In the end,
isn't knowing where the tools are in the tree, almost as important as the current posix standard?

what about su --login --command='<command>'
what are the possible implications there?
apologizes if that sounds like I'm pushing :evil:
it must be in my nature :oops:
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.

xepan
Posts: 89
Joined: 2018-11-28 06:38

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#24 Post by xepan »

llivv wrote: man ...
I always check the funny-manpages first of all. If they fail, i check the manpages-posix. https://packages.debian.org/stretch/manpages-posix
iow: confusing, huh? :-)
To answer your question: to me the actual posix standard usually isn't important (but i think that is the wrong approach, depends with who you speak, and about what, i guess).

User avatar
llivv
Posts: 5340
Joined: 2007-02-14 18:10
Location: cold storage

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#25 Post by llivv »

xepan wrote:
llivv wrote: man ...
I always check the funny-manpages first of all. If they fail, i check the manpages-posix. https://packages.debian.org/stretch/manpages-posix
iow: confusing, huh? :-)
To answer your question: to me the actual posix standard usually isn't important (but i think that is the wrong approach, depends with who you speak, and about what, i guess).
indeed :)
oh so many issues above.
open group
DOJ
knighthood
(world pease)
tanks for the non-free
I'll now have to start watching that too...... 8) bourne
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.

Wheelerof4te
Posts: 1454
Joined: 2015-08-30 20:14

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#26 Post by Wheelerof4te »

I won't be testing it, sadly.
Buster has weak security support, as do all testing releases. Even Chromium isn't in the repo atm because of a source package renaming.

Looking forward to it, though. Finally, Wayland is default on GNOME.

Bulkley
Posts: 6383
Joined: 2006-02-11 18:35
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#27 Post by Bulkley »

I tried the upgrade again. Same problems as before. Ir failed to start blind portmap service and it failed to raise network interfaces. It also failed to recognize my computer ID. I've been doing dist-upgrades for a couple of decades and Buster is the only one that has ever stopped me. There must be some radical changes in there.

One thing this experience reinforces is the need for a good clone to fall back on.

User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
Posts: 14114
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: London, England
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#28 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

@Bulkley, if you post the full output of

Code: Select all

apt-get -s dist-upgrade
then we may be able to help :)

I had to get rid of my buster system[1] but I've reinstalled stretch and I'll be dist-upgrading it on the 12th (when the transition freeze starts) so I'll post back then.

[1] I broke it :D
deadbang

Wheelerof4te
Posts: 1454
Joined: 2015-08-30 20:14

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#29 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:[1] I broke it
How does someone experienced like you break testing so fast? :D Makes me kinda worried for my Sid laptop, haha.

User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
Posts: 14114
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: London, England
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#30 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Wheelerof4te wrote:How does someone experienced like you break testing so fast? :D
*Whispers* I'm not really that experienced with Debian, I'm just good with a search engine and an expert bullshitter :mrgreen:
deadbang

User avatar
Zjho
Posts: 48
Joined: 2016-09-15 17:46

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#31 Post by Zjho »

Finally surrendered running Buster on spare box after BSODs with unresponsive cursor on all choices of kernel and rescue modes.
However looking forward to trying again when goes officially stable. Stretch is rock solid on main box (identical hardware).

Bulkley
Posts: 6383
Joined: 2006-02-11 18:35
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#32 Post by Bulkley »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:@Bulkley, if you post the full output of

Code: Select all

apt-get -s dist-upgrade
then we may be able to help :)
Thanks for the offer. When I do a dist-upgrade I do it from a console (no xorg) as follows:

Code: Select all

apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[change apt sources]
apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
apt-get dist upgrade
Is apt-get -s dist-upgrade useful without doing the first three steps?

As I'm back in Stretch I'll wait until the next urge. Actually I'm not upset about being stuck in Stretch. My system is running very well with everything set the way I like it. I could keep it like this for a long time.

My big attraction to Debian is and always has been package management. I clearly remember RPM dependency hell. :twisted: Lately I've been experimenting with a MX Linux 18 live-USB. As I understand it MX runs without Systemd controlling everything yet keeping Debian packages and package management. Now if I can find a way to dump Xfce and replace it with Openbox (not so easy on a live-USB) I'll take MX more seriously.

User avatar
HuangLao
Posts: 485
Joined: 2015-01-27 01:31
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#33 Post by HuangLao »


User avatar
stevepusser
Posts: 12930
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#34 Post by stevepusser »

Bulkley wrote:
As I understand it MX runs without Systemd controlling everything yet keeping Debian packages and package management. Now if I can find a way to dump Xfce and replace it with Openbox (not so easy on a live-USB) I'll take MX more seriously.
Yes, it boots without systemd by default, though it is an option in the Advanced part of the GRUB menu. Just today, the other MX and antiX devs are fixing a weird problem with Debian's sysvinit scripts that prevent flatpaks like Steam, Atom, etc. form just working out of the box without systemd. Apparently, Debian just went the opposite way from the rest of the Linux world when setting a mount point symlink in /tmp/shm or something, and the flatpaks guys aren't accounting for that. It seems a pretty easy fix, though.

You might be able to get Openbox set up and remove xfce in a persistent MX Live USB, then use the snapshot tool to make your own Openbox respin ISO. I know the snapshot tool can do that, but aren't that familiar with the persistent Live option, just that it's the most advanced there is. Or you could make a respin in a virtual machine, too. Asking on the MX forums would probably help a lot.
MX Linux packager and developer

Bulkley
Posts: 6383
Joined: 2006-02-11 18:35
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Debian buster: are you testing?

#35 Post by Bulkley »

HuangLao, Thanks for the links.

My musings are side tracking the thread. I think I should start a fresh one.

Post Reply