reduce steps in debian install

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reduce steps in debian install

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-07 11:16

Currently when installing debian with the graphical install, one has to click a few options, wait downloads, click more options, download more, click more options, continue download, etc. One cannot set it up and then leave the computer. It makes the installation take much more time than needed for lots of people.

The auto-detection of which country am I located in and the guess of my locale and keyboard layout could be guess automatically if one chooses a checkbox.

Adding sudo to my user and installing apt-get sudo could be a checkbox in the guy of the installation. So I don't have to do it manually and the log out for the sudo group to appear.

There should be another checkbox to deactivate pcspeakers. So people don't have to go to stack overflow to find a way to remove it.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2018-11-07 11:31

That's all been done already - it's called ubuntu ;)
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby cronoik » 2018-11-07 11:43

MagicPoulp wrote: One cannot set it up and then leave the computer.

You can. This feature is called preseed [1]
MagicPoulp wrote:Adding sudo to my user and installing apt-get sudo could be a checkbox in the guy of the installation.

This is also already implemented. Just don't set a password for root.

[1] https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/ia64/apb.html.en
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-07 12:37

Checkboxes would be simpler.

A checkbox to deactivate pcspeakers would be very useful.

I mean that we can have lots of options. But it is a problem to have to download installs and then check options again. There is no particular reason to wait until the 70% of the installation to ask about if Grub should be installed on the main partition, or which desktop environment I want to install.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby None1975 » 2018-11-07 13:50

MagicPoulp wrote:Adding sudo to my user and installing apt-get sudo could be a checkbox in the guy of the installation. So I don't have to do it manually and the log out for the sudo group to appear.

This feature is provided in installer. If you leave empty password in root account creation field, the root account will be disabled and the system`s initial user account will be given the power to become root using the "sudo" command. If it's too hard for you to get interested or learning, you will be happy in Ubuntu land.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-07 14:18

It takes some time to realize why the sudo group has not taken effect and that I have to log off. This can takes lots of minutes from thousands of people.

It is not enough that one can skip the root password. One may wish to have several users and a root. The gui propses to create user, why not propose to have sudo in a checkbox?

I don't understand why 2 guys recommend Ubuntu. It is unstable (swap crash and other). It does not have open content (built patches). It had a scandal of advertizing spyware. It has a slow UI by default (Unity). it has old packages.

I think Debian can be more user friendly than Ubuntu. But the install could avoid having to ask questions at 50%, 60% and 70% of the install. And things could be more ready. Like pcspeakers deactivated.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-11-07 17:58

MagicPoulp wrote:I think Debian can be more user friendly than Ubuntu.

Yes, that's why Ubuntu exists ;)

I can't speak for other Debian users but the "unfriendly" nature of Debian is precisely part of the appeal for me: I don't have to fight silly abstraction mechanisms trying to "help" me.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby Dai_trying » 2018-11-07 17:59

What you are suggesting might suit you better but I prefer to watch what is happening when I perform an installation and having two of three chances to pause the installation safely is what I would consider a useful feature. And i prefer to have my pcspeaker active :D

And I believe Ubuntu (amongst others) will make the decisions for you (which appears to be what you want) and is the main reason for it's suggestion (not what I would call a recommendation).
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby RU55EL » 2018-11-07 18:05

If you normally use expert install, the normal install is "easy" and cuts back on the time required.

As mentioned before, preseed may be what you are looking for.

Preseeding provides a way to set answers to questions asked during the installation process, without having to manually enter the answers while the installation is running. This makes it possible to fully automate most types of installation and even offers some features not available during normal installations.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby stevepusser » 2018-11-07 19:34

Why all the Ubuntu pushing and no love for any of the more direct derivatives, such as SolydXK, Sparky, or the rising MX Linux, that try and make things easier? (full disclosure: I help develop MX)
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-11-07 20:46

Also, if the system administrator knows what they are doing, there can configure the newly installed Debian system so that it very user friendly.
When "end users" , try to be, wanna be , a Debian system administrator, they don't get very far , so they cry about how difficult it is to install, and is not user friendly, bla bla bla,..
It does take some learning, reading a lot of documentation, and sometimes maybe a few tries at installing a OS, and then setting it up, configuring it so that it is "user friendly", How many Windows users actually install the system, along with all the drivers, etc. their selves ? .... Most buy the computer with it pre-installed.
If the OP is not capable of installing a OS properly, they should take the PC to a tech, someone qualified, have them install the system, and configure it as needed.

The MX linux, is a much better choice then Ubuntu, and is somewhat easier to install and configure then Debian, but the OP still will have to be there and make a couple of choices, set their passwords, etc. That is normal on any OS installation.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby Dai_trying » 2018-11-07 22:23

One of the OS's I use (Q4OS) has an option in the installation image (not on the Live-Cd) for the user to install with "no questions asked" but this does limit how the system is set up and I do not use it as I have my own preferences, but it might be nearer to what you (OP) are looking for.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby bw123 » 2018-11-07 23:35

I can sort of understand the gripe. It may be an unfortunate by-product of one of my pet-peeves:
Status bars that go from 0-90% in 5 seconds, then hang on the last ten percent for ? sometimes over a minute.

I don't know who invented this visual progress bar thing, but it's really old. It has never been accurate. There are probably a lot of reasons for it's broken state. The idea of using it is probably to show the user that the machine is not hung. There should be a better way.

By using broken progress bar the installer keeps you sitting there waiting, not knowing when you might need to give input when you could be reading documentation.

On the other hand, a couple of simple websearches might help workaround (some of? most) the whole thing?

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=debian+u ... ed_install
https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=debian+even+a+chicken

MagicPoulp wrote:...It takes some time to realize why the sudo group has not taken effect and that I have to log off. This can takes lots of minutes from thousands of people.
...


That's basic linux, you only need to learn that once. That's not debian problem, it's just what we all have to learn. When you add a user to a group, it doesn't take effect if the user is logged in. That's because groups are assigned at login. There are some (hackish?) workarounds maybe that stil work, maybe some desktop environments can do this? but I don't know if it's worth it.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby MagicPoulp » 2018-11-08 09:05

GarryRicketson wrote: When "end users", try to be, wanna be , a Debian system administrator, they don't get very far , so they cry about how difficult it is to install, and is not user friendly, bla bla bla,..


It leads to confused thinking to use the word to be between 2 substantives.

You are not objective. It is a fact that the installer asks questions separated by minutes of downloading.

You are free not to find useful the suggestions of deactivating pcspeaker and of having a sudo checkbox.
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Re: reduce steps in debian install

Postby debiman » 2018-11-08 09:43

MagicPoulp wrote:Checkboxes would be simpler.

feel free to implement them.
now i have a lot of strong & pointless expletives sitting right on the tip of my tongue, especially for you.
but seriously: if you really consider implementing that into the debian installer, really think about actually coding it, and in a way that works for every machine out there, you will realise what you are really asking there, just to gratify your vmware player faffing.

personally, i prefer the humble approach: first i try to learn what there is to learn, then i start asking questions, and only when all questions are answered in an unsatisfactory way, i might make a suggestion.
you seem to be doing it the wrong way around: demands first, questions later, actual learning last.
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