Why not a restricted-modules package in non-free?

News and discussion about development of the Debian OS itself

Should there be a restricted-modules package in non-free?

Yes, it'd be very convenient
16
59%
No, it's not worth
5
19%
Debian is for experts, use Windows or Ubuntu instead!
6
22%
 
Total votes : 27

Postby mzilikazi » 2007-07-25 20:36

While I do not necessarily like the idea of non-free things in general I do have to agree that expecting anyone (new user or old-hand) to build a driver for their wireless card so they can do a netinstall is counter-intuitive. It just doesn't work. If you have wired ethernet and can do the install that way great but that's not always the case nor should it have to be.

This is not the same argument as nv vs. nvidia. Your X server still works w/ the nv driver. Without wireless working you're pretty much screwed.

I have considered building some drivers myself but keeping up with the many kernels would be too much for me to handle with the limited time I have on hand.
Debian Sid Laptops:
AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor TK-55 / 1.5G
Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T2390 @ 1.86GHz / 3G
User avatar
mzilikazi
Forum Ninja
 
Posts: 3321
Joined: 2004-09-16 02:14
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Postby Velvet Elvis » 2007-07-25 21:03

I think part of the issue is that ubuntu is willing to stuff that can get them sued because they have gold plated space toilets at Canonical anyway.

Debian, not so much.

Perhaps you should change the poll to:

Should debian expose itself to litigation so that newbies shut up and quit complaining:

a. yes
b. no
User avatar
Velvet Elvis
 
Posts: 108
Joined: 2007-04-09 10:55

Postby jdhore » 2007-07-25 21:14

Velvet Elvis wrote:I think part of the issue is that ubuntu is willing to stuff that can get them sued because they have gold plated space toilets at Canonical anyway.

Debian, not so much.

Perhaps you should change the poll to:

Should debian expose itself to litigation so that newbies shut up and quit complaining:

a. yes
b. no


First, the phrase in the quote that i bolded = greatest phrase ever.
Second, that's a very interesting way of looking at it and i certainly didn't think about that.
jdhore
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 2007-06-03 17:22

Postby Dargor » 2007-07-26 03:52

What makes you guys think debian should be agains non-free things, debian already has a non-free repo so it should be made use of it.
If somebody actually was making the packages would you flame them, just because it was non-free.
Nobody is asking you to do it, so just move on and do something that you think is important. Dont stop people from doing what they think is important, at the end of the day it has all helped debian.
User avatar
Dargor
 
Posts: 671
Joined: 2006-08-14 08:54
Location: New Zealand, Hamilton

Postby Velvet Elvis » 2007-07-26 09:04

There's a difference between non-free and illegal to distribute.

Some other distros distribute things when they do not have the legal right to do so. To put it in windows terms, it's putting warez on the distro CD. People should call Mint Linux what it is: A warez distro.

That's not just non-free. It's illegal. It places anyone who makes a distribution based on yours at legal risk as well.

Ie, if ubuntu includes GPL licensed kernel blobs for which no source exists, that does not suddenly grant all ubuntu derivatives the legal right distribute them just because it was ubuntu and not the derivative that chose to violate the GPL. It just means that ever single distro based on ubuntu can be sued by whoever owns the copyright.

It's not just about high minded ideals. It's also about following the law so you don't get your ass sued off. Putting out a stable OS also means making sure that nobody can sue you out of existence. Microsoft is already claiming that Linux distros are full of stolen intellectual property when they are not. Doing stuff like stealing intellectual property and putting it in linux distros does not help the linux community defend itself.

If you want to trade in warez, use windows.
User avatar
Velvet Elvis
 
Posts: 108
Joined: 2007-04-09 10:55

Postby BioTube » 2007-07-26 15:16

The kernel includes binary blobs by default(the only distro I know of that removes them is gNewSense).
Image
Ludwig von Mises wrote:The elite should be supreme by virtue of persuasion, not by the assistance of firing squads.
User avatar
BioTube
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: 2007-06-01 04:34

Postby perlhacker14 » 2007-07-26 15:57

BioTube wrote:The kernel includes binary blobs by default(the only distro I know of that removes them is gNewSense).


I suppose that may be part of the reason RMS now uses and glorifies it...
Arven bids you a good day...

My Laptop: Toshiba Satellite A25-S3072; 3.06 GHz Pentium 4; 473 MiB RAM; Debian Testing/Unstable/Experimental / Slackware 12; Whatever WM/DE I feel like at the moment
User avatar
perlhacker14
 
Posts: 465
Joined: 2007-06-19 20:19
Location: 127.0.0.1

Postby BioTube » 2007-07-26 16:55

But he won't ever put out a GNU distro of Linux. After all, that would just be the final nail in the coffin for his GNU/Linux ego trip.
Image
Ludwig von Mises wrote:The elite should be supreme by virtue of persuasion, not by the assistance of firing squads.
User avatar
BioTube
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: 2007-06-01 04:34

Postby Velvet Elvis » 2007-07-26 17:36

User avatar
Velvet Elvis
 
Posts: 108
Joined: 2007-04-09 10:55

Postby Velvet Elvis » 2007-07-26 17:37

GNU has some kind of plans for it, maybe.

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnu-s ... 00012.html

Sorry about the double post. There was a browser burp.
User avatar
Velvet Elvis
 
Posts: 108
Joined: 2007-04-09 10:55

Postby BioTube » 2007-07-26 19:07

That's about HURD, the third(or fourth?) UNIX clone to date and the only I know that's been in development so long without reaching 1.0. IMO, people who work on the HURD are wasting their time(forking Linux or BSD would probably be more productive).
Image
Ludwig von Mises wrote:The elite should be supreme by virtue of persuasion, not by the assistance of firing squads.
User avatar
BioTube
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: 2007-06-01 04:34

Postby Velvet Elvis » 2007-07-26 19:24

I read the thread.

I stumbled across it this morning in a fit of insomnia and it's a bit of a brainfuck.

RMS says:

Our lawyers think that they can relicense Linux if they want to.
It is important to do this, to protect the users from tivoization.


Yes the thread starts off talking about HURD. He clearly says linux, and there is no way he means anything but the kernel by that.
User avatar
Velvet Elvis
 
Posts: 108
Joined: 2007-04-09 10:55

Postby BioTube » 2007-07-26 19:45

I don't like the GPLv3 for the very reason RMS cites. It attempts to control hardware with a software license. I don't think even the craziest M$ lawyer ever thought of that.

But somebody brought up Linux as an example of people "forgetting their freedom"(evidently Fedora and Debian aren't free while HURD is).
Image
Ludwig von Mises wrote:The elite should be supreme by virtue of persuasion, not by the assistance of firing squads.
User avatar
BioTube
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: 2007-06-01 04:34

Postby perlhacker14 » 2007-07-26 22:08

BioTube wrote:I don't like the GPLv3 for the very reason RMS cites. It attempts to control hardware with a software license. I don't think even the craziest M$ lawyer ever thought of that.

But somebody brought up Linux as an example of people "forgetting their freedom"(evidently Fedora and Debian aren't free while HURD is).


I would guess that Microshaft has enough control over machines (Vista forensic aids, User Profile collecting for data soon) to be bothered with considering extending the EULA...
Debian is exceedingly free... As long as you use only official repos with only main enabled.
Arven bids you a good day...

My Laptop: Toshiba Satellite A25-S3072; 3.06 GHz Pentium 4; 473 MiB RAM; Debian Testing/Unstable/Experimental / Slackware 12; Whatever WM/DE I feel like at the moment
User avatar
perlhacker14
 
Posts: 465
Joined: 2007-06-19 20:19
Location: 127.0.0.1

Postby BioTube » 2007-07-26 22:35

I can't say I know of any software license beyond GPLv3 that actually says "You can't do x with your hardware."
Image
Ludwig von Mises wrote:The elite should be supreme by virtue of persuasion, not by the assistance of firing squads.
User avatar
BioTube
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: 2007-06-01 04:34

PreviousNext

Return to Debian Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

fashionable