Debian and Ubuntu syncing

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Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby debil » 2009-12-08 22:12

Debian Squeeze freeze and Ubuntu Dev Syncing

Earlier this year, the owner of Canonical, Mark Shuttleworth, had proposed that Debian sync releases with Ubuntu so that the work could be spread. Ubuntu releases every six months as it is tied to the GNOME release schedule.

Said McIntyre: “In terms of the discussions with Mark and the Ubuntu team, those are still happening here and there. As the major components of both our releases are shared, we’re hoping to be able to sync up on the same or similar upstream versions and spread some of the work.

“Exactly if and how that will happen depends on the teams involved, but we should be able to help each other. Maybe in future we’ll be able to sync more tightly, but that’s going to take time.”

Getting scary.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby AdrianTM » 2009-12-08 22:38

People helping each other... scary indeed.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby smallchange » 2009-12-08 23:14

Not much to be worried about. Look at the python 2.6 issue and it is hard to imagine much cooperation.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby debil » 2009-12-08 23:57

AdrianTM wrote:People helping each other... scary indeed.

I have nothing against collaboration (when it works). I'm afraid of timed releases (maybe twice a year?), unstability and hand holding (in OS sense, that is). I hope people don't help each other that much.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby jheaton5 » 2009-12-09 00:57

I read an article (sorry I don't have the link) that the Ubuntu developers are trying to convince Mark Shuttleworth to go to a one year release cycle. They too think the 6 month cycle is too soon.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby AdrianTM » 2009-12-09 01:36

debil wrote:
AdrianTM wrote:People helping each other... scary indeed.

I have nothing against collaboration (when it works). I'm afraid of timed releases (maybe twice a year?), unstability and hand holding (in OS sense, that is). I hope people don't help each other that much.

I doubt that's the meaning of synchronizing, Debian can't release once every two years, don't worry nobody will be able to push them to release twice a year, most likely this means that once a year the tool chain and important packages in Sid will be in sync with Ubuntu.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby Paulfocused » 2009-12-09 03:27

I'm not quite sure that I'm open to this idea. :|
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby Eck » 2009-12-09 12:47

Yeah. I posted my concern with a brief outburst in the testing is broken thread. (By the way, it's no longer broken.)

Why do we cater to forks? What's in it for Ubuntu is nice for them but what's in it for Debian?

Freezes are a pain in the first place with everything but bug fixes and the installer development halted and no new software and package versions coming in. Our software mix will NOT be ready in March. Xorg, kde, gnome, everything is undergoing a lot of development now and to freeze incoming before our next stable is complete and the software mix is satisfiable as a new Debian version just to please a FORK is not the way to go.

If Ubuntu wants to issue more stable releases (as they are planning with the next one, basing it on testing rather than unstable), then it is their business to work out how they'll use our repos, not ours to adjust to their needs in a way that interferes with our own plans. Scheduled freezes interferes with the way our stable releases develop. Ubuntu can just compile stuff from anywhere to patch in additional software for a final release as they please. We depend upon what we freeze to be our final release except for bug fixing.

As an example, kde 4.3.4 (which is not even in debian yet) should not be considered to be what comes out in our next stable since a great deal of filling in the blanks of what's missing from kde 3.5 is now going on and will be included in kde 4.4. Ubuntu will be able to just bring it all in on top of what it gets from using our frozen testing repo. But because we froze, our next distribution will not include it. The new xorg versions fix up loads of stuff that are giving people fits. Ubuntu has already committed to including that and they don't have to care that what they have as a base in debian testing doesn't have it. They just throw it in if they want it. We need to wait for our natural bug fixing in unstable happens first and so, with a March freeze, would have to do without.

We'd just be helping the fork release the best distro they can possibly release and put a big stumbling block to Debian's next stable being our best possible release.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby Paulfocused » 2009-12-09 15:03

Eck wrote:Yeah. I posted my concern with a brief outburst in the testing is broken thread. (By the way, it's no longer broken.)

Why do we cater to forks? What's in it for Ubuntu is nice for them but what's in it for Debian?

Freezes are a pain in the first place with everything but bug fixes and the installer development halted and no new software and package versions coming in. Our software mix will NOT be ready in March. Xorg, kde, gnome, everything is undergoing a lot of development now and to freeze incoming before our next stable is complete and the software mix is satisfiable as a new Debian version just to please a FORK is not the way to go.

If Ubuntu wants to issue more stable releases (as they are planning with the next one, basing it on testing rather than unstable), then it is their business to work out how they'll use our repos, not ours to adjust to their needs in a way that interferes with our own plans. Scheduled freezes interferes with the way our stable releases develop. Ubuntu can just compile stuff from anywhere to patch in additional software for a final release as they please. We depend upon what we freeze to be our final release except for bug fixing.

As an example, kde 4.3.4 (which is not even in debian yet) should not be considered to be what comes out in our next stable since a great deal of filling in the blanks of what's missing from kde 3.5 is now going on and will be included in kde 4.4. Ubuntu will be able to just bring it all in on top of what it gets from using our frozen testing repo. But because we froze, our next distribution will not include it. The new xorg versions fix up loads of stuff that are giving people fits. Ubuntu has already committed to including that and they don't have to care that what they have as a base in debian testing doesn't have it. They just throw it in if they want it. We need to wait for our natural bug fixing in unstable happens first and so, with a March freeze, would have to do without.

We'd just be helping the fork release the best distro they can possibly release and put a big stumbling block to Debian's next stable being our best possible release.


I couldn't agree more.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby sir fer » 2009-12-12 20:11

Eck wrote:Yeah. I posted my concern with a brief outburst in the testing is broken thread. (By the way, it's no longer broken.)

Why do we cater to forks? What's in it for Ubuntu is nice for them but what's in it for Debian?


hear bloody hear. I can't for the life of me understand why the Ubuntu crew think they're in a position to demand anything from the Debian devs.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby kevin01123 » 2009-12-14 01:54

A freeze in Debian is the standard release cycle of Ubuntu.

If Debian were to start syncing, it would be because of upstream developers, not Ubuntu.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby Tadeas » 2009-12-16 17:23

Given that it would mean more people working on the same issues, it's a good idea, isn't it? I'm afraid we'll need much more detailed information on how the cooperation would look like before we condemn it. IMO generally it sounds good - two distributions working on the same upstream versions and thus helping each other to solve the current issues.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby 62chevy » 2009-12-24 03:44

Tadeas wrote:Given that it would mean more people working on the same issues, it's a good idea, isn't it? I'm afraid we'll need much more detailed information on how the cooperation would look like before we condemn it. IMO generally it sounds good - two distributions working on the same upstream versions and thus helping each other to solve the current issues.


Sounds good till you think about it. You would no longer have two distinct distros, they would be the same, just different names. Ubuntu should stay Ubuntu and Debian, Debian.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby bluesdog » 2009-12-24 06:26

It'll never work. :shock:

We'd once more be limited to jeering @ M$.....

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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby milomak » 2009-12-24 06:54

62chevy wrote:
Tadeas wrote:Sounds good till you think about it. You would no longer have two distinct distros, they would be the same, just different names. Ubuntu should stay Ubuntu and Debian, Debian.


What does it matter if they are not distinct; as long as Debian sticks to its social contract?
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