Debian and Ubuntu syncing

[AdrianTM]

Who said anything about leaving debian, adrian?

Don't know people started to talk about BSD in this thread...

[nitehawk]

Who said anything about leaving debian, adrian?

Don't know people started to talk about BSD in this thread...

...that was only in reference to the idea (of the scant and remote possibility) that there might be deeper shades or streaks of brown showing up in Debian,....which hopefully will NOT be the case.

[refracta]

I usually change if I see brown streaks....just sayin...

[DtW]

It remains to be seen what will actually happen. A person in the Debian release team first suggested that they would freeze the testing repository in January 2010 but pretty much nobody seemed to be ready for that. After discussing with major packaging teams the current release team’s publicly announced plan is to freeze in March 2010:

Yes, the plan was to freeze in March but now the release team considers it “highly unlikely” because there are so many release critical bugs. I’m glad to hear that it’s still the quality that comes first, not date.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-an ... 00002.html

I'm a happy user of Debian Lenny who wishes to see Squeeze just as solid system. Now, everybody, let’s fix a couple of bugs or otherwise help those great people developing Debian.

[Parsifal]

I think that viewing the issue as Debian vs. Ubuntu is the wrong way to look at it. Each distributions has its own user base (with some overlap; I dual boot Debian and Ubuntu myself), and each distribution's primary focus should be catering to its user base as best it possibly can.

Now, since the two distributions are so closely related, but with different release policies, I don't think it's right to view the issue as "Debian users vs. Ubuntu users". Ubuntu users can be thought of as Debian users by proxy who prefer the Ubuntu release cycle, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that; the reason there are so many different GNU+Linux distributions in the first place is that people have different wants and needs in their operating system.

My suggestion is that Debian and Ubuntu should be considering not only their own user base, but how best to serve their combined user base, as well as GNU+Linux users in general. If Debian is capable of helping Ubuntu make a better release without compromising its own release quality, therefore, it should do so for the same reason that a mother cooks for her entire family and not just herself.

As a side issue, it will also help to convert more Windows users if they observe the GNU+Linux community to be a friendly one in which various distros help each other to succeed, rather than competing for resources as in the proprietary software model. As the cliché goes, "united we stand, divided we fall".

[cynwulf]

Personally I've no problem as such with positive and useful collaberation of the "bi-directional" sort, quite a few of the Debian devs are Canonical employees anyway. My worry is that this "deal" will be mainly one sided and aimed at serving Shuttleworth's commercial interests (release targets).

What Debian does not need is Canonical's assorted commercial bling, such as the software center and other craptastic Ubuntu packages.

[llivv]

.

[Parsifal]

Personally I've no problem as such with positive and useful collaberation of the "bi-directional" sort, quite a few of the Debian devs are Canonical employees anyway. My worry is that this "deal" will be mainly one sided and aimed at serving Shuttleworth's commercial interests (release targets).

I don't think it matters very much if Ubuntu is the only beneficiary - as I said, we can consider Ubuntu users to be Debian users by proxy - but if this is the case, Debian should be putting itself first. That is, if Debian can help Ubuntu without compromising its own goals, then it should do so, but Debian should never compromise its own goals purely for Ubuntu's gain.

Not that I think collaboration would be one-sided, just that I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing if it were.

What Debian does not need is Canonical's assorted commercial bling, such as the software center and other craptastic Ubuntu packages.

I couldn't agree more. I actually removed the Software Centre on my Ubuntu installation; I can imagine it being useful to newcomers from Windows with technophobia (and after using Windows, who can blame them?), but I prefer to use aptitude.

[cynwulf]

Removing the Software Center in Squeeze also calls for the removal of the "gnome" meta package...

I think I'll be building a minimal gnome from the bottom next weekend.

I find Debian's inclusion of this canonical idiotware somewhat disturbing.

[JonJ678]

I see this as initially hugely advantageous to Ubuntu. The first couple of releases will be less broken, which is good. I wouldn't like to guess at how the Debian developers view Ubuntu, or whether any would simply move to a different distribution however. I suspect that donating ones free time to make Canonical more money isn't very attractive.

Any time spent helping Ubuntu along is time not spent working on Debian. As such the quality of Debian will surely decrease, at which point Ubuntu has lost the rock it builds upon. Even if people don't just jump ship.

Debian and Ubuntu collaborating strongly implies the two converging on a common theme. I've no interest whatsoever in a Debian/Ubuntu blend; I like Debian because it's stable and Ubuntu isn't. A blend wont be either.

[cynwulf]

I see this as initially hugely advantageous to Ubuntu. The first couple of releases will be less broken, which is good. I wouldn't like to guess at how the Debian developers view Ubuntu, or whether any would simply move to a different distribution however. I suspect that donating ones free time to make Canonical more money isn't very attractive.

Any time spent helping Ubuntu along is time not spent working on Debian. As such the quality of Debian will surely decrease, at which point Ubuntu has lost the rock it builds upon. Even if people don't just jump ship.

Debian and Ubuntu collaborating strongly implies the two converging on a common theme. I've no interest whatsoever in a Debian/Ubuntu blend; I like Debian because it's stable and Ubuntu isn't. A blend wont be either.

It's pretty obvious that as time goes on, Canonical will get it's claws into Debian more and more. Already quite a few Debian developers work for Canonical so it's only a matter of time before Ubuntu effecively "own" it or are in a position to steer it's development in whichever direction they choose.

It's probably these individuals that pushed the "software center" into Squeeze, even knowing that probably the vast majority of Debian users won't use it at all. (Who used gnome-app-install anyway? And many don't even use synaptic either - but why try to replace gnome-app-install with what is essentially an inferior app that will only be used by the ignorant?).

Synaptic has been described as the "training wheels", the software center is clearly the "bicycle trailer".

[Roel63]

It's pretty obvious that as time goes on, Canonical will get it's claws into Debian more and more. Already quite a few Debian developers work for Canonical so it's only a matter of time before Ubuntu effecively "own" it or are in a position to steer it's development in whichever direction they choose.

Isn't it a fact that there are also Ubuntu/Canonical devs working for Debian?

[cynwulf]

Isn't it a fact that there are also Ubuntu/Canonical devs working for Debian?

Already quite a few Debian developers work for Canonical

Yes.

Or did you mean literally "work" for Debian? AFAIK Debian developers aren't "paid"? Though they can be Ubuntu devs as well and thus Canonical payrolled employees. I think it's only the goons that mod their forums that aren't paid(?) - they're simply idiot fanboys that get off on telling people to "sudo do what I tell you".

[omns]

I think it's only the goons that mod their forums that aren't paid(?) - they're simply idiot fanboys that get off on telling people to "sudo do what I tell you".

An accurate assessment.

[plugwash]

Synaptic has been described as the "training wheels",

Can't say i've ever really seen why though, it presents you with much the same info other tools do just in a GUI form (which I find much easier for browsing though if I already know what I want I prefer the command line).

[Murdock]

Ubuntu is a cult.
Debian is the greatest operating system ever implemented to the average household or business.
Don't take this wrong because I have boxes loaded with Ubuntu and Mint but my ' serious" box is Lenny/stable.
I'm an old man so I remember people " improving" the original muscle cars only to be whipped by a stocker.
Same movie/ different hardware
Give me a stocker, in perfect tune.