Debian and Ubuntu syncing

News and discussion about development of the Debian OS itself

Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby cynwulf » 2010-05-11 13:16

Personally I've no problem as such with positive and useful collaberation of the "bi-directional" sort, quite a few of the Debian devs are Canonical employees anyway. My worry is that this "deal" will be mainly one sided and aimed at serving Shuttleworth's commercial interests (release targets).

What Debian does not need is Canonical's assorted commercial bling, such as the software center and other craptastic Ubuntu packages.
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Postby llivv » 2010-05-12 15:46

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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby Parsifal » 2010-05-12 19:47

cynwulf wrote:Personally I've no problem as such with positive and useful collaberation of the "bi-directional" sort, quite a few of the Debian devs are Canonical employees anyway. My worry is that this "deal" will be mainly one sided and aimed at serving Shuttleworth's commercial interests (release targets).

I don't think it matters very much if Ubuntu is the only beneficiary - as I said, we can consider Ubuntu users to be Debian users by proxy - but if this is the case, Debian should be putting itself first. That is, if Debian can help Ubuntu without compromising its own goals, then it should do so, but Debian should never compromise its own goals purely for Ubuntu's gain.

Not that I think collaboration would be one-sided, just that I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing if it were.

cynwulf wrote:What Debian does not need is Canonical's assorted commercial bling, such as the software center and other craptastic Ubuntu packages.

I couldn't agree more. I actually removed the Software Centre on my Ubuntu installation; I can imagine it being useful to newcomers from Windows with technophobia (and after using Windows, who can blame them?), but I prefer to use aptitude.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby cynwulf » 2010-05-24 16:14

Removing the Software Center in Squeeze also calls for the removal of the "gnome" meta package...

I think I'll be building a minimal gnome from the bottom next weekend.

I find Debian's inclusion of this canonical idiotware somewhat disturbing.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby JonJ678 » 2010-05-25 16:19

I see this as initially hugely advantageous to Ubuntu. The first couple of releases will be less broken, which is good. I wouldn't like to guess at how the Debian developers view Ubuntu, or whether any would simply move to a different distribution however. I suspect that donating ones free time to make Canonical more money isn't very attractive.

Any time spent helping Ubuntu along is time not spent working on Debian. As such the quality of Debian will surely decrease, at which point Ubuntu has lost the rock it builds upon. Even if people don't just jump ship.

Debian and Ubuntu collaborating strongly implies the two converging on a common theme. I've no interest whatsoever in a Debian/Ubuntu blend; I like Debian because it's stable and Ubuntu isn't. A blend wont be either.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby cynwulf » 2010-05-26 08:37

JonJ678 wrote:I see this as initially hugely advantageous to Ubuntu. The first couple of releases will be less broken, which is good. I wouldn't like to guess at how the Debian developers view Ubuntu, or whether any would simply move to a different distribution however. I suspect that donating ones free time to make Canonical more money isn't very attractive.

Any time spent helping Ubuntu along is time not spent working on Debian. As such the quality of Debian will surely decrease, at which point Ubuntu has lost the rock it builds upon. Even if people don't just jump ship.

Debian and Ubuntu collaborating strongly implies the two converging on a common theme. I've no interest whatsoever in a Debian/Ubuntu blend; I like Debian because it's stable and Ubuntu isn't. A blend wont be either.

It's pretty obvious that as time goes on, Canonical will get it's claws into Debian more and more. Already quite a few Debian developers work for Canonical so it's only a matter of time before Ubuntu effecively "own" it or are in a position to steer it's development in whichever direction they choose.

It's probably these individuals that pushed the "software center" into Squeeze, even knowing that probably the vast majority of Debian users won't use it at all. (Who used gnome-app-install anyway? And many don't even use synaptic either - but why try to replace gnome-app-install with what is essentially an inferior app that will only be used by the ignorant?).

Synaptic has been described as the "training wheels", the software center is clearly the "bicycle trailer".
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby Roel63 » 2010-05-26 08:46

cynwulf wrote:It's pretty obvious that as time goes on, Canonical will get it's claws into Debian more and more. Already quite a few Debian developers work for Canonical so it's only a matter of time before Ubuntu effecively "own" it or are in a position to steer it's development in whichever direction they choose.


Isn't it a fact that there are also Ubuntu/Canonical devs working for Debian?
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby cynwulf » 2010-05-26 10:23

Roel63 wrote:Isn't it a fact that there are also Ubuntu/Canonical devs working for Debian?


cynwulf wrote:Already quite a few Debian developers work for Canonical


Yes.

Or did you mean literally "work" for Debian? AFAIK Debian developers aren't "paid"? Though they can be Ubuntu devs as well and thus Canonical payrolled employees. I think it's only the goons that mod their forums that aren't paid(?) - they're simply idiot fanboys that get off on telling people to "sudo do what I tell you".
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby omns » 2010-06-16 00:53

cynwulf wrote:I think it's only the goons that mod their forums that aren't paid(?) - they're simply idiot fanboys that get off on telling people to "sudo do what I tell you".

An accurate assessment.
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby plugwash » 2010-06-23 19:24

cynwulf wrote:Synaptic has been described as the "training wheels",

Can't say i've ever really seen why though, it presents you with much the same info other tools do just in a GUI form (which I find much easier for browsing though if I already know what I want I prefer the command line).
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Re: Debian and Ubuntu syncing

Postby Murdock » 2010-07-11 19:13

Ubuntu is a cult.
Debian is the greatest operating system ever implemented to the average household or business.
Don't take this wrong because I have boxes loaded with Ubuntu and Mint but my ' serious" box is Lenny/stable.
I'm an old man so I remember people " improving" the original muscle cars only to be whipped by a stocker.
Same movie/ different hardware :mrgreen:
Give me a stocker, in perfect tune.
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