Repo mix-and-match hit parade

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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby Randicus » 2015-10-11 00:59

IG-89
I now fully understand why dasein, et al., were royally pissed at me............ :mrgreen:

Not only were people not pissed at you, they did not even seem annoyed.* Which is surprising considering the numerous threads started with such issues. The good thing is you took advice seriously and quickly learned the error of your ways. People like you are not the annoying ones. The annoying ones are those who refuse to accept the truth and continue pleading, or demanding :shock: , a solution.

* Except dasein of course. Everyone annoys him. (Hint :wink: )
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby IG-89 » 2015-10-11 08:16

Royally pissed is definitely hyperbolic, but it sure felt that way when the egg was streaming down my face. And I wouldn't have believed the idea of someone demanding a solution if I hadn't just seen it on another, rather similar thread, but real it is indeed.
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-10-22 00:26

This is the best one I have seen so far,
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=125342#p596802
Just came in today, ...
So, Is there any way to "fix" it ?
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby golinux » 2015-10-22 00:43

GarryRicketson wrote:So, Is there any way to "fix" it ?
Maybe a lobotomy?
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby stevepusser » 2015-10-22 00:54

golinux wrote:
GarryRicketson wrote:So, Is there any way to "fix" it ?
Maybe a lobotomy?


I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby Pick2 » 2015-10-22 02:58

stevepusser wrote:I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.


Double what Steve said ! :)
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby dasein » 2015-10-24 13:51

For the benefit of anyone not coming in from the top of the thread...

And to commemorate the fact that I hit 6000 posts (this very post, in fact) and 60 years both in the same week (an astonishing and portentous numerological convergence if there ever was one)...

Not to mention the fact that this most facepalm-worthy of threads has thus far had no facepalms...

Plus the fact that I found an image that seemed to "fit" this thread like no other...

Image

There. Much better.
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-10-24 14:42

I wonder if the people that mix repos, and distros, try to do the same with their cars,
For example, try to put the transmission, that was in the Ford, the kid crashed, and now the newer Chevy has problems with the transmission, so "Let's take the old ford transmission, and weld it to the Chevy, (needs to be welded, because the mounting holes, bolts don't match),....
"What we expect you have already Done"

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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby golinux » 2015-10-24 15:06

That's a great analogy!
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2015-10-24 16:59

Happy birthday dasein and congrats on 6k posts!
:)

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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby spacex » 2015-10-26 23:46

GarryRicketson wrote:I wonder if the people that mix repos, and distros, try to do the same with their cars,
For example, try to put the transmission, that was in the Ford, the kid crashed, and now the newer Chevy has problems with the transmission, so "Let's take the old ford transmission, and weld it to the Chevy, (needs to be welded, because the mounting holes, bolts don't match),....


Sure there are. There are people doing all kinds of custom mods, regardless if it's cars or computers. Life should be fun. It's to short to be playing everything safe. The more unlikely a mod is, the greater achievement it is to make it work. After all, most of us are gonna leave this planet in 20-30 years. Why not make them count. Instead of just being and playing everything safe. Want to try something? Then just do it. Doesn't matter if everyone else thinks it's insane. doesn't even matter if you succeed or fail. The only importance is that you have fun while doing it :D
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby Bulkley » 2015-10-27 00:25

spacex wrote:Life should be fun. It's to short to be playing everything safe. The more unlikely a mod is, the greater achievement it is to make it work. After all, most of us are gonna leave this planet in 20-30 years. Why not make them count. Instead of just being and playing everything safe. Want to try something? Then just do it. Doesn't matter if everyone else thinks it's insane. doesn't even matter if you succeed or fail. The only importance is that you have fun while doing it


Yes, but it doesn't do any favours to newbies to tell them that.
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-10-27 01:41

Well at least it is not "life threatening", unless it happened to be a computer controlling some kind of "life support system" in the critical care section at the hospital.
Yes, but it doesn't do any favors to newbies to tell them that.

The first thing a "newbie" needs to understand, is what the consequences of mixing repos may be, and also some things that just plain don't work, this is especially important when perhaps a student, and all his/her school work is on the one system, on the only laptop they have, or also a small business, or "production server". Until the "newbie" or less experienced person, regardless if it is a student, or professional, business, until or unless the individual expresses the desire to experiment and try some modification, etc. then it is fine, to encourage them, it is a great learning experience to try new things, but they need to understand that should also be done on a seperate machine, (ideally) or at least partition, or a VM, and not the OS they depend on.
For example, also, telling people they should not mention which distro they are using because this is a Debian forum, and they might not get a response, or might get told to ask some where else, that kind of advice could lead to creating a "mixed" system, in reverse, getting stuff from the Debian repository, when they should have been using the
repository for that particular distro. Like wise , downloading what often is just "linux" software, from unknown sources, there is a lot of "linux" software out there, and it is obvious the developer does not really know enough about "linux" and all of the distros to take that into consideration, maybe they just test it on "ubuntu" , and then say, ok , This works on linux, but they have no clue if it really works , on Debian, or any of the other distros.
I am sure most people here have noticed, but if not, take a look at the install manuals , on some of the better "open source" software, and they will see that the install manual includes different instructions, specific for Debian, or Arch, Ubuntu, and some of the other most popular distros, and the instructions are different,..very important to read the "read me first", etc.

Some times, I have found in the "read me" file, it says, "If you are using Debian you need to, bla, bla,(usually a url and reference that you need to be sure to get the libraries needed from the Debian repository).Or in some case I have seen where they admit,and make it clear, that that particular package, has had problem working on Debian.

I know, because I learned the "hard way", installing a "control panel" ,or trying too, for a server. I thought I followed the instructions carefully, well I did follow them carefully, but after the install, it (the program) would not run, it was late and I was tired,..my second "fatal error", I shut the server and computer down, went to bed.
The next day when I started the computer,.. could not boot, to the partition that had the server. So I booted with a different partition, and went to the site where the manual, and install instructions were, to see if I could figure out what had gone wrong. When I started reading, carefully again,.. I noticed it said " for archlinux", and further down,"for Debian "squeeze", for "Lenny" see this: (a url link for debian "lenny"), and further down,
"For Ubuntu", etc,various distros.
Well, the night before I had not payed attention, and had started following the instructions on the first part I saw, so I guess that was "Archlinux",..this was so long ago, don't remember exact details, ..but any way, I compared some parts of the instructions, with the instructions for Debian, and they were different, ... especially different on the sources that I was supposed to use, to install certain libraries, (dependencies), that did not come in the software package and needed to be installed first. I was lucky, and was able uninstall, purge, etc,..and got back to where the "Squeeze", partition would boot , and was able to successfully install the software.
Kind of a Too Long of A Post, maybe not very many will read it, my feelings though, ok, if that is what one enjoys, experimenting and crashing a system just to see if they can fix it, go for Have Fun !, But well, maybe it is cause I am older and wiser now, Life is to short to waste parts of it trying to do something that is impossible, or extra hours, re-installing and starting over, I would rather be doing other things, then running in circles, waste valuable time.
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby dasein » 2015-10-27 16:35

Bulkley wrote:
spacex wrote:Life should be fun. It's to short to be playing everything safe. The more unlikely a mod is, the greater achievement it is to make it work. After all, most of us are gonna leave this planet in 20-30 years. Why not make them count. Instead of just being and playing everything safe. Want to try something? Then just do it. Doesn't matter if everyone else thinks it's insane. doesn't even matter if you succeed or fail. The only importance is that you have fun while doing it


Yes, but it doesn't do any favours to newbies to tell them that.

More to the point, not a single person posting problems related to repo mixing so much as hinted that s/he was trying to break his/her system in order to experience the "joy" of fixing it.

Not one of them said anything like, "I was hoping to spend a few hours learning all about how to fix entirely optional and unnecessary breakage, but it's turning out to be a bit tougher than I imagined it would be."

Not one of them said anything like, "Yeah, I was trying to master subtleties of apt-pinning and hosed my system because of a stupid typo. Can this be fixed?"

Not one of them said anything like, "I was looking for an excuse to reinstall my system, and this seemed like a really effective method."

No. The reports are from people who borked their systems out of ignorance, and who exhibit absolutely zero interest in "learning" anything. At the risk of pointing out the blindingly obvious, that's why they are asking others to give them a "canned" fix, rather than doing independent research.

The "'joy' of breakage" is merely a strawman. At best, it's pure psychological projection; at worst, it's an attempt to rationalize psychopathy.
Last edited by dasein on 2015-10-27 16:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

Postby GarryRicketson » 2015-10-27 16:55

More to the point, not a single person posting problems related to repo mixing so much as hinted that s/he was trying to break his/her system in order to experience the "joy" of fixing it.

and
No. The reports are from people who borked their systems out of ignorance, and who exhibit absolutely zero interest in "learning" anything.

Well, not all of the "exhibit absolutely zero interest in "learning" anything" , there are a few that, admit, it was "ignorance", or "lack of experience", and sometimes mis-information, but were also happy to have been pointed to the "don't break Debian", link, and maybe did learn something.
For me, (none of my oldest posts are here, fortunately), but still applies to me, as well, when I first joined the forum , I had a problem, My Debian was "broken" , and I did not understand why, I noticed the link to "don't break Debian", in the signature of H_O_A_S, looked at it, and realized that was probably what was wrong, a program I had gotten , back when I was using Xubuntu, was not in the Debian repos, so I thought I was real smart,...ok well I didn't use the Xubuntu repos, but I did add a source, link to the "download", location for the software, and that worked, it installed just fine,...but it also broke my system,..after reading the "how to not break Debian",https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
I looked into it more, and found out the "program" that caused the problem, had been deliberately, removed from the Debian repos, for that very reason, it had some "bugs" that would break the system. All of the trouble could have been avoided, if I had done a little research first,..now I do check things out ahead of time.
It is true, most , if not all of the ones in this thread, were genuinely surprised when they found that they had broken their system, none of them were trying too experiment, or expected the problems, mostly because these were things they did not know.
It is a "valuable" topic/thread, for various reasons, the main one, it has links to all or most of the threads that were problems caused by mixing repos, and incorrect sources.list files, when there are posts that this is the problem, referring them to this topic/thread, they can find where in some cases , the person was able to restore the system, and how they did it, as well as the many, where re-installing was the easiest thing to do.
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