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Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-10-27 17:55
by edbarx
The major problem with repository mixing is new users assume for no logical reason that all distributions must compile their packages in a way that guarantees package compatibility. They also have no idea what an operating system really is, as for most of them, an operating system, must be something like MS Windows.

Operating systems may take many forms, and this is where beginners often fail to realise, that their idea of an operating system, is badly limited.

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-10-27 18:22
by thanatos_incarnate
edbarx wrote:as for most of them, an operating system, must be something like MS Windows.

Which is hypocritical if you think about it. I dare every Windows fanboy to stick the win*.dll file of Windows 10
into Windows XP and reboot. Sounds crazy, OK, but that's the analogy of what a lot of people literally do here.
Or I dare people to use their old Vista drivers on Windows 10 and see how it works.

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-10-27 19:27
by dasein
GarryRicketson wrote: It is true, most , if not all of the ones in this thread, were genuinely surprised when they found that they had broken their system, none of them were trying too experiment, or expected the problems, mostly because these were things they did not know.

That's exactly my point. It is irresponsible for anyone to encourage folks to engage in potentially destructive behavior "for the lulz" when the only one getting any lulz out of the deal is the instigator.

After all, mumblety-peg "isn't dangerous" if you are an accomplished knife thrower. But that doesn't justify encouraging random people to try it so that they can "learn" all about staunching arterial blood flow, or experience the "fun" of reattachment surgery.

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-10-29 03:15
by spacex
dasein wrote:The "'joy' of breakage" is merely a strawman. At best, it's pure psychological projection; at worst, it's an attempt to rationalize psychopathy.


Yes, if breakage was something that happened to us often. But it isn't. The same mistakes are never made twice :)

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-11-04 21:29
by GarryRicketson
Seems like a "harmless problem"

Packages install endlessly?


How long will it keep running ?

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-11-04 21:39
by Wheelerof4te
^I give it a day or two.

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-11-05 01:09
by dasein
I dunno. This one looks harmless enough as presented (duplicate sources). Of course, the deeper concern is what damage might have been done in a prior dist-upgrade. I have no freaking clue what tangalou is (nor do I care, just for the record). Might be a trainwreck, might be nothing.

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-11-05 02:03
by GarryRicketson
by dasein »I have no freaking clue what tangalou is (nor do I care, just for the record).

Ok, well just in case some one else wants to know,..It seems to be quite the "mix",
using a little from "experimental" and a little from "testing", interesting experiment, I suppose, but not something any body that needs a reliable system would want to use.

From http://tanglu.org/faq/:
Is Tanglu 1.0 based on Debian Testing or Unstable?

It's neither. While the majority of packages comes from Testing, a significantly large amount is taken from Unstable. A few packages even trace back to Debian Experimental. When building this release we tried to get the technically best constellation of packages, including newer versions where it made sense. Using the versions from Testing as primary choice has the advantage that these versions already received some testing in Debian before they landed in Tanglu.

I like this "already received some testing in Debian", glad to know they did "some" testing, but what happens when the user is using a computer that it has not been tested on, ? Or what happens when some of the "experimental" packages turn out to have "bugs" ? I imagine lots of updating, repairs, unexpected problems to be solved, are all part of the "bargain"

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-11-07 22:23
by keithpeter
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/20 ... 00157.html

This one looks quite impressive. The mail list contributors were restrained in their replies.

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-12-20 17:47
by ant
Yikes. I fell for this too. I think I need to do a clean install to get to Jessie since my oldstable Wheezy is sort of a mess with Debian Multimedia, VirtualBox.org's deb files, Google, and others. I want to get the new stuff from outside of Debian's official servers too. How do you guys deal with those? :(

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-12-20 19:20
by steve_v
ant wrote:I want to get the new stuff from outside of Debian's official servers too. How do you guys deal with those? :(
Except for a couple of special cases, I resist the "new stuff". :P

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-12-20 19:39
by dasein
Unfortunately, the ignore list doesn't work on quoted text...
ant wrote:I want to get the new stuff from outside of Debian's official servers too. How do you guys deal with those? :(

Debian is the worst possible choice for anyone who wants shiny-shiny. Run Arch and be done with it.

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-12-20 21:03
by stevepusser
ant wrote:Yikes. I fell for this too. I think I need to do a clean install to get to Jessie since my oldstable Wheezy is sort of a mess with Debian Multimedia, VirtualBox.org's deb files, Google, and others. I want to get the new stuff from outside of Debian's official servers too. How do you guys deal with those? :(


Third party repositories can be be perfectly compatible if the maintainer of the packages takes care to keep them so. However, there's no Debian police squad to take them downtown if they mess up. Most of those repos you have mentioned have proven safe when used by other users as directed. Best thing is to ask experienced users here if they've used those repos.

Some of deb-multimedia's (DMO) packages are infamous for breaking other of Debian's multimedia programs. Usually this is due to one of DMO's packages pulling in the dmo version of the "real" ffmpeg libraries over Jessie's libav versions of those.

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-12-20 22:56
by ant
stevepusser wrote:
ant wrote:Yikes. I fell for this too. I think I need to do a clean install to get to Jessie since my oldstable Wheezy is sort of a mess with Debian Multimedia, VirtualBox.org's deb files, Google, and others. I want to get the new stuff from outside of Debian's official servers too. How do you guys deal with those? :(


Third party repositories can be be perfectly compatible if the maintainer of the packages takes care to keep them so. However, there's no Debian police squad to take them downtown if they mess up. Most of those repos you have mentioned have proven safe when used by other users as directed. Best thing is to ask experienced users here if they've used those repos.

Some of deb-multimedia's (DMO) packages are infamous for breaking other of Debian's multimedia programs. Usually this is due to one of DMO's packages pulling in the dmo version of the "real" ffmpeg libraries over Jessie's libav versions of those.
So, only Debian Multimedia is the worse?

Re: Repo mix-and-match hit parade

PostPosted: 2015-12-20 23:07
by ant
dasein wrote:Unfortunately, the ignore list doesn't work on quoted text...
ant wrote:I want to get the new stuff from outside of Debian's official servers too. How do you guys deal with those? :(

Debian is the worst possible choice for anyone who wants shiny-shiny. Run Arch and be done with it.
Even with unstable and testing (thinking of going to one of these if I do a clean install)? Forget experimental. ;)